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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Weapon proficiencies"

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** Just do the AoI table. We will get the system updates in under a month, and they will apply even to people stuck on vanilla PSU. On a side note, I think it would looks nice if we altered the table spacing to make the rank cell for each weapon roughly square. Would just look better, I think. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 14:36, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
 
** Just do the AoI table. We will get the system updates in under a month, and they will apply even to people stuck on vanilla PSU. On a side note, I think it would looks nice if we altered the table spacing to make the rank cell for each weapon roughly square. Would just look better, I think. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 14:36, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
 
*** OK.  I have to agree with the rank cell being square, too.  I tried a few things while I was at work earlier, but I'm running into that issue of a template breaking any other commands you put around it.  I'll mess around with it when I have more time. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 22:50, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
 
*** OK.  I have to agree with the rank cell being square, too.  I tried a few things while I was at work earlier, but I'm running into that issue of a template breaking any other commands you put around it.  I'll mess around with it when I have more time. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 22:50, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
−
**** On a semi-related note, is there any particular reason we're not using the icons from the game for displaying the C, B, A and S? Copyright would be a concern I admit, but since we're already using the weapon icons from the game, I wouldn't have thought this would be the case. At any rate, I went ahead and set up a template for weapon proficiencies then used it for all the classes, adding AF and AT while I was at it. The template in question is [[Template:WeaponProficiencies]]. This should have the advantage that if we decide against using the icons and can figure out how to make the rank cells square, we only need to change it on that one template. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 17:51, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
+
**** On a semi-related note, is there any particular reason we're not using the icons from the game for displaying the C, B, A and S? Copyright would be a concern I admit, but since we're already using the weapon icons from the game, I wouldn't have thought this would be the case. At any rate, I went ahead and set up a template for weapon proficiencies then used it for all the classes, adding AF and AT while I was at it. The template in question is [[Template:Weapon proficiencies]]. This should have the advantage that if we decide against using the icons and can figure out how to make the rank cells square, we only need to change it on that one template. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 17:51, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* Looks great.  I tried messing around with the width thing again, but still with no luck.  There's got to be a way around this... <_< - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:07, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* Looks great.  I tried messing around with the width thing again, but still with no luck.  There's got to be a way around this... <_< - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:07, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* Essen has shown us the way.  (Thanks, again!)  The problem was that I was trying to use style tags which didn't go well with the color templates since they already have style tags in them.  A simple <code><nowiki>width=20</nowiki></code> was all that was needed. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:26, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* Essen has shown us the way.  (Thanks, again!)  The problem was that I was trying to use style tags which didn't go well with the color templates since they already have style tags in them.  A simple <code><nowiki>width=20</nowiki></code> was all that was needed. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:26, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
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The lack of an X icon really does make the usable weapons stand out a lot more.  I think I like it this way better. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 11:23, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 
The lack of an X icon really does make the usable weapons stand out a lot more.  I think I like it this way better. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 11:23, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* I quite agree that "no X" is better than the use of the X. However, the problem is that while it was easy enough to set up the template so that an absent value (like dsaber for Gunmaster) brought up a grey cell and an X icon, I'm not sure how the template could be set up so that an absent value equals NO icon. If we can figure that out though, it gets my vote. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 13:29, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 
* I quite agree that "no X" is better than the use of the X. However, the problem is that while it was easy enough to set up the template so that an absent value (like dsaber for Gunmaster) brought up a grey cell and an X icon, I'm not sure how the template could be set up so that an absent value equals NO icon. If we can figure that out though, it gets my vote. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 13:29, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
** Just an idea, but couldn't you make a gray icon (The same gray as the background), which is the same size as the X icon? Then when it loads the icon you don't see anything, but it spaces everything properly. The only problem I see is that it would cause unnecessary bandwidth usage.
 +
* Essen showed me the way. I've implemented conditionals for the icons; No icon is shown unless the parameter is present. Thanks Essen. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 12:44, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
* Now that does look awesome. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 13:34, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
* Miraglyth mentioned the rank colours on the Twin Handguns talk, but I should really be bringing it up here. The Color-C template uses a colour which, on both of my systems, is extremely similar to that of the Color-X template; We can see this in Espio's example table above. The net result being that the two blend together a fair bit. Now, I'm aware that both of these templates are using "browser safe" colours, but the fact remains that both colours are extremely similar. I'm sure there's another blue colour which isn't so close to grey within the browser safe palette. For that matter, do we even need to stick with the browser-safe palette? - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 14:29, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
* I'm still not sure what you mean by "browser safe" - the background cell colours I chose to match the letter of the C/B/A/S as used in the game. On both of my systems the background colour of C/"X" is distinguishable but since I like compatibility I can understand that it might not be the case for everyone. Nevertheless, C has a "C" icon and "X" has a blank cell. Surely that's difference enough? - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 15:22, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
* On another note, is this a step too far?:
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 +
|-
 +
| width=20 {{Color-{{{sword|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Sword icon}} || width=20 {{Color-{{{knuckles|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{knuckles|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Knuckles icon}} || width=20 {{Color-{{{spear|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Spear icon}} || width=20 {{Color-{{{dsaber|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Double saber icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{axe|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{axe|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Axe icon}} || {{Color-{{{tsaber|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tsaber|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Twin saber icon}} || {{Color-{{{tdagger|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tdagger|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Twin dagger icon}} || {{Color-{{{tclaw|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tclaw|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Twin claw icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{saber|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Saber icon}} || {{Color-{{{dagger|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{dagger|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Dagger icon}} || {{Color-{{{claw|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{claw|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Claw icon}} || {{Color-{{{whip|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{whip|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Whip icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{slicer|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Slicer icon}} || {{Color-{{{rifle|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Rifle icon}} || {{Color-{{{shotgun|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Shotgun icon}} || {{Color-{{{longbow|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{longbow|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Longbow icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{grenade|B}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{grenade|B}}}.gif]] || {{Color-B}}|{{Grenade icon}} || {{Color-{{{laser|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Laser cannon icon}} || {{Color-{{{thandgun|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Twin handgun icon}} || {{Color-{{{handgun|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Handgun icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{crossbow|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Crossbow icon}} || {{Color-{{{card|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{card|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Card icon}} || {{Color-{{{machinegun|X}}}}} | || {{Color-X}}|{{Machinegun icon}} || {{Color-{{{rcsm|B}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{rcsm|B}}}.gif]] || {{Color-B}}|{{RCSM icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{rod|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{rod|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Rod icon}} || {{Color-{{{wand|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{wand|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Wand icon}} || {{Color-{{{tcsm|C}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tcsm|C}}}.gif]] || {{Color-C}}|{{TCSM icon}} || &nbsp; || &nbsp;
 +
|}
 +
* On the table above for a moment I thought twin daggers were S. Something like this might help avoid that potential confusion. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 15:45, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
** I agree, but then is the dark grey necessary? [[User:Essen|Essen]] 15:59, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
*** So then like this?
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 +
|-
 +
| width=20 | || {{Sword icon}} || width=20 {{Color-{{{knuckles|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{knuckles|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Knuckles icon}} || width=20 | || {{Spear icon}} || width=20 | || {{Double saber icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{axe|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{axe|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Axe icon}} || {{Color-{{{tsaber|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tsaber|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Twin saber icon}} || {{Color-{{{tdagger|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tdagger|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Twin dagger icon}} || {{Color-{{{tclaw|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tclaw|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Twin claw icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| | || {{Saber icon}} || {{Color-{{{dagger|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{dagger|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Dagger icon}} || {{Color-{{{claw|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{claw|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Claw icon}} || {{Color-{{{whip|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{whip|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Whip icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| | || {{Slicer icon}} || | || {{Rifle icon}} || | || {{Shotgun icon}} || {{Color-{{{longbow|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{longbow|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Longbow icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{grenade|B}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{grenade|B}}}.gif]] || {{Color-B}}|{{Grenade icon}} || | || {{Laser cannon icon}} || | || {{Twin handgun icon}} || | || {{Handgun icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| | || {{Crossbow icon}} || {{Color-{{{card|A}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{card|A}}}.gif]] || {{Color-A}}|{{Card icon}} || | || {{Machinegun icon}} || {{Color-{{{rcsm|B}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{rcsm|B}}}.gif]] || {{Color-B}}|{{RCSM icon}}
 +
|-
 +
| {{Color-{{{rod|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{rod|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Rod icon}} || {{Color-{{{wand|S}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{wand|S}}}.gif]] || {{Color-S}}|{{Wand icon}} || {{Color-{{{tcsm|C}}}}} | [[Image:Icon_{{{tcsm|C}}}.gif]] || {{Color-C}}|{{TCSM icon}} || &nbsp; || &nbsp;
 +
|}
 +
 +
* Maybe I should have changed the template colour for X, but I didn't wanna screw it over yet so just removed it here for the sake of simplicity. Anyway, despite looking less professional/idk, I'm thinking this one seems pretty nice actually. - [[User:Tycho|Tycho]] 21:27, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
* Actually, I kind of like the one with the greyed cells; It helps the weapon icons stand out from the page.<br>On the flipside, it would be nice if we could re-encode the weapon icons as transparent GIFs, where the white is the transparent colour; However, that would make the coloured cells for the weapons the type CAN use turn into the background just as the dark grey would become the background for the ones it CAN'T. Still, I favour both using grey for the "can't do it" cells, and the applicable colours behind the usable cells, too. - [[User:DaWrecka|DaWrecka]] 17:53, 17 April 2008 (CDT)
 +
** ''"it would be nice if we could re-encode the weapon icons as transparent GIFs"'' - Haha, I mentioned that months ago, but for giving weapons "elements" for the sake of user profiles and (primarily) NPC pages. On another note, "bump". - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 18:57, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

Latest revision as of 05:41, 12 November 2008

Table improvements

  • As you may have noticed, I've updated the Fortetecher proficiency table to include the four new weapon categories. I also changed all weapon names to their respective icon. Thing is, I was wonder if we should include both the original pre-AotI table along with the AotI table? Thoughts? - EspioKaos 13:19, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
    • Just do the AoI table. We will get the system updates in under a month, and they will apply even to people stuck on vanilla PSU. On a side note, I think it would looks nice if we altered the table spacing to make the rank cell for each weapon roughly square. Would just look better, I think. --Qwerty 14:36, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
      • OK. I have to agree with the rank cell being square, too. I tried a few things while I was at work earlier, but I'm running into that issue of a template breaking any other commands you put around it. I'll mess around with it when I have more time. - EspioKaos 22:50, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
        • On a semi-related note, is there any particular reason we're not using the icons from the game for displaying the C, B, A and S? Copyright would be a concern I admit, but since we're already using the weapon icons from the game, I wouldn't have thought this would be the case. At any rate, I went ahead and set up a template for weapon proficiencies then used it for all the classes, adding AF and AT while I was at it. The template in question is Template:Weapon proficiencies. This should have the advantage that if we decide against using the icons and can figure out how to make the rank cells square, we only need to change it on that one template. - DaWrecka 17:51, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Looks great. I tried messing around with the width thing again, but still with no luck. There's got to be a way around this... <_< - EspioKaos 20:07, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Essen has shown us the way. (Thanks, again!) The problem was that I was trying to use style tags which didn't go well with the color templates since they already have style tags in them. A simple width=20 was all that was needed. - EspioKaos 20:26, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
  • I've managed to whip up a table that uses icons instead of letters; My original plan was to save it to my sandbox and then set up an alternate Weapon Proficiencies article, again within my sandbox, for review purposes. Unfortunately that seems problematic. - DaWrecka 18:09, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
    • It looks pretty good. I'll steal it for ep1 offline too if you don't mind ^^ Essen 19:09, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
      • Not bad, but what's everypone's thoughts on the "X" icon? The icon itself is fine but I can't help but wonder if the icons for equippable weapons would stand out a lot more if it wasn't used. - Miraglyth 07:21, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

For the sake of reference to Mira's suggestion, I present random weapon proficiency type!

Swords
 Icon A.gif
Knuckles
Spears
Double sabers
Icon S.gif
Axes
 Icon A.gif
Twin sabers
 Icon A.gif
Twin daggers
 Icon S.gif
Twin claws
Sabers
 Icon A.gif
Daggers
 Icon S.gif
Claws
 Icon A.gif
Whips
Slicers
Rifles
Shotguns
 Icon A.gif
Longbows
Icon B.gif
Grenades
Laser cannons
Twin handguns
Handguns
Crossbows
 Icon A.gif
Cards
Machineguns
 Icon B.gif
RCSMs
Icon S.gif
Rods
 Icon S.gif
Wands
 Icon C.gif
TCSMs
    

The lack of an X icon really does make the usable weapons stand out a lot more. I think I like it this way better. - EspioKaos 11:23, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

  • I quite agree that "no X" is better than the use of the X. However, the problem is that while it was easy enough to set up the template so that an absent value (like dsaber for Gunmaster) brought up a grey cell and an X icon, I'm not sure how the template could be set up so that an absent value equals NO icon. If we can figure that out though, it gets my vote. - DaWrecka 13:29, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
    • Just an idea, but couldn't you make a gray icon (The same gray as the background), which is the same size as the X icon? Then when it loads the icon you don't see anything, but it spaces everything properly. The only problem I see is that it would cause unnecessary bandwidth usage.
  • Essen showed me the way. I've implemented conditionals for the icons; No icon is shown unless the parameter is present. Thanks Essen. - DaWrecka 12:44, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Now that does look awesome. - Miraglyth 13:34, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Miraglyth mentioned the rank colours on the Twin Handguns talk, but I should really be bringing it up here. The Color-C template uses a colour which, on both of my systems, is extremely similar to that of the Color-X template; We can see this in Espio's example table above. The net result being that the two blend together a fair bit. Now, I'm aware that both of these templates are using "browser safe" colours, but the fact remains that both colours are extremely similar. I'm sure there's another blue colour which isn't so close to grey within the browser safe palette. For that matter, do we even need to stick with the browser-safe palette? - DaWrecka 14:29, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • I'm still not sure what you mean by "browser safe" - the background cell colours I chose to match the letter of the C/B/A/S as used in the game. On both of my systems the background colour of C/"X" is distinguishable but since I like compatibility I can understand that it might not be the case for everyone. Nevertheless, C has a "C" icon and "X" has a blank cell. Surely that's difference enough? - Miraglyth 15:22, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • On another note, is this a step too far?:
Swords
 Icon A.gif
Knuckles
Spears
Double sabers
Icon S.gif
Axes
 Icon A.gif
Twin sabers
 Icon A.gif
Twin daggers
 Icon S.gif
Twin claws
Sabers
 Icon A.gif
Daggers
 Icon S.gif
Claws
 Icon A.gif
Whips
Slicers
Rifles
Shotguns
 Icon A.gif
Longbows
Icon B.gif
Grenades
Laser cannons
Twin handguns
Handguns
Crossbows
 Icon A.gif
Cards
Machineguns
 Icon B.gif
RCSMs
Icon S.gif
Rods
 Icon S.gif
Wands
 Icon C.gif
TCSMs
    
  • On the table above for a moment I thought twin daggers were S. Something like this might help avoid that potential confusion. - Miraglyth 15:45, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
    • I agree, but then is the dark grey necessary? Essen 15:59, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
      • So then like this?
Swords
 Icon A.gif
Knuckles
Spears
Double sabers
Icon S.gif
Axes
 Icon A.gif
Twin sabers
 Icon A.gif
Twin daggers
 Icon S.gif
Twin claws
Sabers
 Icon A.gif
Daggers
 Icon S.gif
Claws
 Icon A.gif
Whips
Slicers
Rifles
Shotguns
 Icon A.gif
Longbows
Icon B.gif
Grenades
Laser cannons
Twin handguns
Handguns
Crossbows
 Icon A.gif
Cards
Machineguns
 Icon B.gif
RCSMs
Icon S.gif
Rods
 Icon S.gif
Wands
 Icon C.gif
TCSMs
    
  • Maybe I should have changed the template colour for X, but I didn't wanna screw it over yet so just removed it here for the sake of simplicity. Anyway, despite looking less professional/idk, I'm thinking this one seems pretty nice actually. - Tycho 21:27, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Actually, I kind of like the one with the greyed cells; It helps the weapon icons stand out from the page.
    On the flipside, it would be nice if we could re-encode the weapon icons as transparent GIFs, where the white is the transparent colour; However, that would make the coloured cells for the weapons the type CAN use turn into the background just as the dark grey would become the background for the ones it CAN'T. Still, I favour both using grey for the "can't do it" cells, and the applicable colours behind the usable cells, too. - DaWrecka 17:53, 17 April 2008 (CDT)
    • "it would be nice if we could re-encode the weapon icons as transparent GIFs" - Haha, I mentioned that months ago, but for giving weapons "elements" for the sake of user profiles and (primarily) NPC pages. On another note, "bump". - Miraglyth 18:57, 19 April 2008 (CDT)
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