Difference between revisions of "The re-PSUPedia:Raffon Field Base"

Revision as of 02:05, 6 August 2007

Welcome to Raffon Field Base, the page where you can discuss and ask questions about PSUPedia!

• This page is for general discussion about the PSUPedia.
  • Unlike the actual Raffon Field Base, it's not for chit-chat, trading or anything else that has nothing to do with PSUPedia, or its contents.
  • If you have a question about a specific article, it's better to make a comment on that article's talk page, rather than posting it here.
  • Things that can go here: general suggestions about the 'Pedia, content that needs to be added, errors and bugs, etc.
• When raising a new topic of discussion, please use a header (=== Your Discussion Title Here ===) and place it at the top of the 'Current Discussions' section.
• Finally, when making a comment, sign it by using 4 tildes (~), this will add your username and the time and date of your comment. In addition, if responding to a comment, please use the summary box on the edit page to let others know what you have responded to.

Enjoy! - the PSUPedia Staff.

Archived Discussions

There are currently no archived discussions. Discussions will be archived when deemed necessary to prevent the page from becoming too big.

Current Discussions

Individual Weapon Page Redesign Discussion: Join In!

Announcing this so more people'll see it: In light of the weapon info template's broken nature, several of us have been proposing redesigns for those pages.

Querty's is here, and this is my counterproposal. Join the discussion and say which one you like better, or how either could be improved! F Gattaca 14:44, 1 August 2007 (BST)

Attention Duelists: New Weapon Page Standard

For any intrepid young editors interested in helping out the 'pedia, here is a link to the new standard for weapon pages. For examples of this new standard in use, see Axes, Spears, Swords. Thank you, and have a wonderful day. --Beatrixkiddo 02:43, 29 July 2007 (BST)

User pages

Gonna make it quick. A lot of people have been making user pages for themselves, and not contributing at all to the site. It gets annoying having to sort through all the recent edits when theres a bunch of user page edits in. This isn't directed at anyone really, but I doubt anyone who does it even checks RFB or recent edits. It's really not that big a deal, moreso a personal irk, but eh, I thought it can't hurt to bring it up -- Saiffy 03:05, 6 August 2007 (BST)

Wait a damn minute, here!

Over the past half year I've taken to working on the article for Machineguns and the indivdual weapons themselves since they're mostly neglected by other editors here at PSUPedia. At times, I feel like I'm the only one adding and editing to it. Notcing a nicer version of the weapons stats tables in other articles, I blended its style with the information I added to the Machineguns article.

I was told someone had reverted the work I had put into the article recently and found a rather abrasive comment by Beatrixkiddo, who had mostly undid my work. Pardon me, but I have not seen a Manual of Style on this website nor any notice here at Raffon about a discussion of such. I looked through here and did a few searches of the site; hell, I even looked at the discussion page for Weapons. Nothing. I told him to show me just where his less-detailed version of the table is the official standard and I would concede; Qwerty re-reverted the article with a link to an obscure Sandbox page.

He clams that page contains "the new standard" and that most of my information "was deemed unnecessary," but I can't discern any sort of concensus or decree in that sandbox page's discussion to say whether or not a standard was authorized! I see a few comments on what design people like best, some suggestions, but that's it.

While I'm annoyed with Beatrix's attitude towards my efforts, I'm not fuming over having my work "stepped on." I fully realize that this is an open encyclopedia and anything added is open to editing. What I'm irritated with is the lack of clarity and visibility pertaining to something that's, apparently, a standard. A standard in which much of the information I had been adding was "unnecessary" and open to removal with accompanying snide remarks. If "standards are there for a reason" I damn well think there should be clearly marked information about it. Even Wikipedia does that!

Somebody's probably going to say that it's my responsibility to inspect the Recent Changes and that I would have seen the discussion in progress, but I don't prowl the Recent Changes (much less this site) from day to day to know when discussions about style are taking place, much less in poorly marked sandboxes, and I'm sure I'm not the only one! F Gattaca 20:33, 28 July 2007 (BST)

• lolk. What attitude? I said in my comment I hated to step on your feet, but that there was a standard. Obviously you noticed there was a new weapons page style in place (since you used it for the machinegun page). All other pages that I (and others such as Miraglyth) have converted to the new style lack the JP Name, Buy Price, Sell Price, etc, which I removed from your edit. I did not "completely remove" your work. I removed the things you kept that the new standard does not use. I don't "prowl" the Recent Changes either, but all it would have taken on your part was a quick comment on my talk page "Why did you modify my edit?", not a revert of my edit. If you'd like to discuss things civilly, the sky's the limit. As for Qwerty's revert of your revert; he's a SysOp, and has every right to do so. His comment was not "an obscure sandbox", it was the place of discussion where this new standard was discussed for quite some time. Due to a lack of responses other than me, Mewn, Qwerty, and I think Tycho, Miraglyth decided to forge ahead with his choice for the standard. Feel free to contact me if you have anything else you'd like to ask about. --Beatrixkiddo 02:40, 29 July 2007 (BST)

• Hello, Mr. Gattaca. I believe I played with you a few nights ago. At any rate, you are correct in stating that the discussion on the spear sandbox page was far from conclusive, and although it was not noted anywhere (now noted above), the table format currently in use on Spears and the like was the one that has been chosen, and it is slowly but steadily being implemented. Do not think that we do not value your contributions, as that is certainly not true. However, you must accept that article standards will be changed, and some of your contributions may be altered. Thus is the nature of the beast. It would be great if we could have announcements and such for whenever a standard or template has changed, but the core contributing group of this wiki is but a few individuals, all of whom have other obligations and cannot afford to pour in the time needed to note every template/standard change meticulously. Hell, we can't even find time to change all the weapon type pages to the new template, much less the time needed to make a consistent "Manual of Style". So please, bear with us. If things seem really disorganized and confusing, they probably are. Now, regarding Beatrixkiddo's comment, I do not think he was rude, and I know that he certainly was not intending to seem rude. If you wish to discuss this further, just go ahead and leave me a note on my talk page or something. --Qwerty 05:46, 30 July 2007 (BST)
  • I'm unsure if the two of you are even aware of this statement in my original comment, since you've both seen fit to lecture me about the nature of PSUPedia's open editability/Querty's rights as a sysop, but I'm not fuming over having my work "stepped on." I fully realize that this is an open encyclopedia and anything added is open to editing. All editing pages have a warning about this! Again, it was the whole lack of clear standards and Beatrixkiddo's attitude concerning them ("standards are there for a reason" when standards aren't actually there--not to mention his "lolk" attitude here) that has me fuming.
    
    I suppose Beatrixkiddo's providing a link here to the specific table in question on that sandbox is a step forward in the right direction, but I suggest a more permanent solution. It should be possible to create more "The PSUPedia" articles; having a sidebar link pointing to a Manual of Style page with subpages concerning different preferred layouts/tables/terminology would make this much more accessible to everyone.
    
    On that note; yes, Beatrixkiddo, the Spears sandbox was obscure and would continue to be had you not linked it here--as far as I can tell your link to it here at Raffon is the only place to find it on this site save Querty's link in the Machineguns edit history. For starters, it's a subpage of the main sandbox, and the whole discussion about standards took place there as well. The discussion didn't happen in a more visible area such as, say, the Weapons discussion page, nor was there any notice/announcement that I can see so that people could voice their opinions about what they personally find useful.
    
    Just keep in mind; this kind of thing will matter every time SEGA introduces an expansion that has a new subset of weapons. If this kind of thing wasn't brought to light, people like me who aren't "in" on secluded agreements to use a standard will have this problem when they go to make articles on Whips, Madoogs and Shadoogs. F Gattaca 04:30, 31 July 2007 (BST)
    • If you have the time to develop a Manual of Style, then be my guest. Unfortunately, I don't have time, and neither do the other regular contributors, who number around five by my count, by the way. Everything you say is true (except the comment on Beatrixkiddo being rude, trust me, he had no intention of seeming snarky). Unfortunately, we're all too busy to deal with it right now. Can you at least appreciate that fact? You just have to appreciate that if any of the regular contributors changes something and references some new standard, we do know what we are talking about, even if it isn't clear immediately. --Qwerty 04:53, 31 July 2007 (BST)
      • I'm starting on a Manual of Style right now. I'm at work right now, however, so I probably won't be able to get much done with it until later. But, let's all try to make this a priority of ours. We need to officially document a uniform style and put it into use. I've seen way too many people elsewhere say that they don't like how unprofessional and sloppy certain articles look here due to a lack of uniformity. EspioKaos 15:34, 31 July 2007 (BST)
      • I agree it should be a priority, I'm not exactly sure what to put in a Manual of Style though, but yeah, the site does need to be consistent. Oh, and Gattaca, you say you're 'fuming' - well, I suggest you calm down a bit. Beatrixkiddo has proven his worth as a contributor, as have you, and he was not attempting to be rude to you. Hot-headedness will only create problems here, so I'd like to see a little less of it on all sides, thanks. - Mewn 16:10, 31 July 2007 (BST)
        • Believe me, Querty; if I knew how to add special "Wiki:" pages (not to mention adding them to the sidebar), I'd volunteer to take care of it myself. However, I think at least part of that is only doable by admins. EpisoKaos is already starting a Manual of Style page, so I will help get the ball rolling there.
          
          And Mewn--much of the querulousness I have concerning Beatrixkiddo and the "hidden standard" that resulted in the removal of much of my work stems from his attitude compounded with the wasted time invested in developing the article as I did. I actually spent a few hours clumsily trying to understand the new table format and then modifying it to accept what information already existed in the Machineguns article. I understand that pretty much all of you agree he wasn't rude, though my perspective differs. Perhaps it's just my experience with people on the internet who will use smilies/tongue emotes or some form of "friendly" or "inoffensive" chaff to cover snide/abrasive behavior (PVP Online has observed this) that I've come to expect it. Beatrixkiddo's "lolk" attitude only reinforced my opinion.
          
          When it comes to anger over wasted time, it's in some ways similar to the animosity people feel on Wikipedia when they toil over an article, striving to make it informative, well written, and adequately sourced ... only to see the article deleted by others. It can be quite discouraging, you know?
          
          At any rate, I don't want to have this problem again, and I'd rather not see it happen to others. I've already added a preliminary guide on the Manual of Style concerning the weapons table format with some pointers of how it works and what to do. I based the "example and code" table on Wikipedia's own manual of style pages, modified for PSUPedia's preferred table appearance.
          F Gattaca 18:55, 31 July 2007 (BST)

money and mission points info

has any 1 madde a table of the money and misson points onall the diffrent ranke for each mission? please respond _{-- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Naptownz Elite.}

• Naptownz Elite, please sign your comments and work on your spelling. You are looking for Mission Chart, by the way. --Qwerty 20:24, 9 July 2007 (BST)

Offline info\Enemy Info

Is it really that neccesary to have info on offline weapons/enemies/whatever? Maybe it's just me, but some of the pages look really, really, well, bad with all that crap. And I think it's safe to assume that most, if not all, people use PSUPedia for online info.

Totally unrelated, but I also think the pages for enemies should be reworked so all of them follow the same layout. Show level per mission, exp, HP. If someone can make a layout, I'd gladly add in all the info. Eventually add in drops too, perhaps. Examples: http://psupedia.info/Gol_Dolva http://psupedia.info/Badira http://psupedia.info/Goshin They're all pretty different, and some are missing info. Saiffy 22:24, 2 July 2007 (BST)

• Sign your blasted comments. Also, I've been starting to do this in the weapon articles, see Spears or Wands for examples. - Miraglyth 20:34, 2 July 2007 (BST)
• Forgot tildes LOL.

I'll just have to steal that layout and fix up other weapon types then :3 Saiffy 22:24, 2 July 2007 (BST)

• Great stuff! Hope you stick around for a while :) - Miraglyth 01:34, 3 July 2007 (BST)

• I think it's a good thing that it has offline info - I can't play online and use PSUPedia a lot.Granted, it's lack of info about offline drops annoys me, but.. eh. I think I will try and correct that on my next playthrough (I plan to slow down then) Tokorona 02:50, 6 July 2007 (BST)

• I agree with Tokorona, the offline info is necessary for people like me who prefer to try out various gaming strategies in the Extra mode, where meseta is plentiful and level-ups come quickly. Trooper1023 05:27, 25 July 2007 (BST)

Question on Style

I was discussing with someone about some edits to a certain article. I was told that my edits required dumbing down because my use of speech was far too elaborate. It kind of caught me off guard, but it now strikes me as a more sweeping issue then something limited to a singular article. So, I am going to pose the question here. Is my use of speech far too elaborate to be used in these articles of PSUpedia? Or shall I try to stick to a more simplistic array of words? It is not like I am intentionally trying to pull fancy words out of my rear, I just normally write like this, I blame my father. In either case, I'm going to leave the question of style here, how elaborate is too elaborate? --Ccelizic 20:05, 13 June 2007 (BST)

• I have a somewhat similarly elaborate style of writing too, which is natural for me. I'd say it doesn't really matter, so long as you are getting the message across. People don't necessarily have to write like you to understand what you write, so I see no need to dumb down. I'd just make a general point, not aimed at anyone in particular, to avoid obvious things such as slang, internet terms or phrases (even popular ones), irrelevant and/or esoteric jargon, and words which will likely confuse people or send them scuttering to dictionary.com. I suppose also it's worth noting that this is supposed to be a resource for any and all players (even Japanese ones, if we ever trump their sites), and obviously not everyone has such a good grasp of English as native speakers do. Mewn 02:32, 14 June 2007 (BST)
• What Mewn said. --Qwerty 03:30, 14 June 2007 (BST)
• It would also be a good point that not everyone that uses this site is on the same education level. Gamers of all ages use this site so some reservation on using large words need to be taken. Remember a twenty-seven year old English major can write using words that a twelve year old middle school student wouldn't even know where to begin translating into understandable, useful language. Don’t consider this to be dumbing down as much as it is making anything you write understandable to a wide audience. LillostXSoul 04:47, July 23, 2007 (CST)

Project:Copyrights

Look at that block of text below your editor window. It goes on saying how this is released under the GNU Free Documentation Liscense 1.2. And then, as you can see it directs the user to look at Project:Copyrights for more information. Now, that link spits over to something nonexisitant. Is that intentional? Do we need someone to get that legal information in there? Did ninja kidnap it? Or is that some link that needs to be removed from the editor page? Maybe I'm obssessing over something asinine, but it seemed to strike me as something worth bringing up. --Ccelizic 06:39, 13 June 2007 (BST)

Massive edits

To those who edit/add to this site, can I ask you to PLEASE use the preview button? It's not that far away from the submit button. It lowers the ammount of posts listed in the Recent Changes page. It just gets in the way and makes it harder to keep track of what's been updated. Thank you for reading this.Rydia 08:17, 30 March 2007 (BST)

• Not to mock you, but while this is a talk page, the "Raffon Field Base" project means to leave comments in the article itself! - Miraglyth 17:37, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • Oops ^_^ My appologies. Wasn't totaly sure where I was supposed to place this.Rydia 18:27, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • I'll take the liberty of moving it. For the record: I agree with you, 2 or maybe even 3 edits to correct mistakes made is acceptable... but when you start seeing six or more consecutive edits on the same article, it starts to seem like a piss-take. I would urge people to use the Preview function, and better yet, to check and double check what they have put. Mewn 20:07, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • Even failing that, the least people could do would be to use the "Summary" box to detail the cause of so many edits. - Miraglyth 04:05, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • Well, people don't seem to have taken much notice of this, and the same sections of articles are repeatedly being edited over a small period of time by the same person. Is there anything anyone can think of to stop this, without being ridiculously harsh? Mewn 21:14, 1 April 2007 (BST)
  • Is it possible to put a timer on how quickly a single account can edit one page? If you could put this on then people would be forced to either use the preview effectively or wait an incredibly long time to complete a page, I'm not sure on the limitations of this Wiki, so it's just an idea. Wormania 23:55, 1 April 2007 (BST)

Planet Maps

Can someone get/compile a map of the planets, with locations? The small cut of the maps on the mission screen, is not really helpful for an overview. _{- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Mixilli.}

• Before I lost the net I was working on some maps. I made only 1 map so far, Linear Line "A" path(I call it A, not the A from Rare Monster's Page). Maybe I sould do that again. It was a challange, but fun. Rydia 04:58, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • I thought Mixilli meant the planets themselves, with "the mission screen" being referred to as the overhead "map" screen you get when at the mission counters. - Miraglyth 05:12, 31 March 2007 (BST)
    • Huh. beats me really. hough I wouldn't mind maping as much of he game as I can and is needed of me. Maybe I could do "box" locaions better then my original map. Rydia 07:33, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • I've been maintaining a map of all the missions for each planet, just for my own use. It shows how they link up, and what level enemies there are. I could make an image of these if that would be helpful. Pob 11:08, 4 April 2007 (BST)

Rappy Paska

• Isn't easter rappies called Rappy Baska not Rappy Paska? i changed it to baska but sum1 changed it to Paska. _{- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Wild Goose.}
  • In-game they are called Rappy Paska. Yes, this does mean that the English website preview is wrong. - Miraglyth 03:09, 25 March 2007 (BST)
    • Most likely a mistranslation on SoA's part. Rappy Paska in katakana is ラッピー･パスカ (Rappii Pasuka) whereas Baska would be バスカ. Kinda easy to mistranslate the first kana due to the similar symbols. Paska is correct, however, as it probably refers to Paska bread. Mewn 12:27, 25 March 2007 (BST)
      • Interesting, I always figured it was a bastardization of the word "paschal," but I guess the bread makes sense too. SoA was probably thinking Baska as in Easter Basket. --Qwerty 17:30, 25 March 2007 (BST)
        • Could be. I guess they were trying to americanize it? but yea easter basket= Baska.--Wild Goose 19:56, 25 March 2007 (BST)
          • lol, multi-lingualism. Actually I think the chance SoJ knows about Ukranian easter bread is pretty slim. Check this; half of the article names in other languages it refers to are similar to this. Really, the English term is the odd one out. - Tycho 18:01, 27 March 2007 (BST)
            • it really is an odd one. it is basically the only one that does not sound like the hebrew wording. i guess we hav to be unique :)--Wild Goose 21:42, 27 March 2007 (BST)
          • Heh, I didn't notice that, Tych. Admittedly, I only know Easter in three languages (English, French - Pâques, and German - Ostern) and thought the whole Paska thing too much the same to be mere coincidence. A shame if it was just a reference to Pascha or whatever, at least a reference to Ukranian bread would be far more interesting than just 'hay guyz we bastardized Easter in a foreign language lol'. Mewn 01:19, 28 March 2007 (BST)

New item container

New Item Box

• I found this on easter peril i have some pics of it. the wierd part was its on the ceiling. i dont know if it has any better droprate than normal. Loki 16:11, 14 April 2007 (CST)
  • Not sure if they have any particular higher droprate. I've heard they can drop Something Sweet but I don't really know, maybe someone else here knows more than me. Mewn 23:25, 14 April 2007 (BST)
    • That has been known about since the day Eastern Peril came out. They just seem to have a slightly different drop list than the other containers, often dropping Something Sweet, buff items, and Scape Dolls. They also drop assorted berries. --Qwerty 03:43, 15 April 2007 (BST)

Main page linking

I understand the use of the search box, but i do feel that the site could use some bettermain page linking to other pages. For example AoI is in hot discussion right now, but there is no way to get there unless you do a search or go to categories. Im not trying to put this job off on anyone else, but im not very good with wiki editing and parts or the main page are restricted to normal users. Tell me what you think. And on a side note, what happened to the pick of the day idea, or even pick of the week, that would be cool. Loki 21:41, 17 April 2007 (CST)

• I think I was the only person who's really been pushing for additions of this nature - for example, I've done a small amount of fiddling with a possible new Navigation section. The trouble IMO is that almost nobody else seems to care. For similar reasons our Photon Fortune situation is awful, our Rare Monsters tables are still inconsistent and ugleh despite work to improve it and the "new logos" work has amounted to nothing. - Miraglyth 18:56, 18 April 2007 (BST)
  • I see the work you do around here, and I for one really apreciate it. I not entirely wiki knowlegable, in fact this is the first one ive worked on, but an online game of this nature can not have its guides created by a single person. It is way to massive, and there is way to much data to be compiled to rest on the shoulders of one. Im trying my best here and if there is anything you want help with im game. The PSU community needs to help each other out. Loki 15:38, 18 April 2007 (CST)
  • I really do like your work on Rare Monsters tables better than the current one. What refrain you from adding it? (Beside the hard work). Also, that would be better with links to monsters pages. The really good thing with yours is that everything fit on the screen. Anyway if you need help adding this design, please ask. Essen 15:54, 25 April 2007 (BST)
    • It's that nobody else in the discussion pages for Qwerty or myself have lent any support or criticism. There's no point mass-implementing something of this scale only to have people then turn around and say "Oh no let's go back to the old one." so I'm stuck doing nothing until people - regulars and sysops - actually say something ¬_¬ - Miraglyth 23:48, 25 April 2007 (BST)
    • I believe I lent my support for it... Mewn 09:04, 26 April 2007 (BST)
• I agree that we need a better sort of "site-map" or directory of some sort, or at least we need to reorganize which links are in the main menu, because otherwise entire articles can get overlooked (sort of like the two I worked out today, there's no real good place from which to link them in the current setup). While I am not terribly familiar with the functioning of categories, templates, or table coding, I can try to work on something now that schoolwork is finally letting up. I'd also like to see us reorganize the Rare Monsters page to make it fit with the template Miraglyth has worked out. These are all things I've wanted to do for a while, but thus far I've been too preoccupied with shoolwork and pestering Mira on the forums to work them out. Hopefully we can make some headway on this stuff in the coming weeks. --Qwerty
  • Just another comment: I think expandable/collapsible menus might help a lot with organizing things, either in the sidebar or on the main page. However, it seems that can only be done with javascript, and I sure as hell don't know any java, nor do I even know if it would work in the wiki context. Either way, it's something to consider. I may also try to draw up a rough sitemap later tonight if I have time. --Qwerty 19:10, 9 May 2007 (BST)
    • Me yet again. I found some wiki extension that allows for the creation of collapsible menus and such. I'm assuming Tycho or HitmonCHAN would have to install this then, yes? It does seem like something that would be very helpful for organizing menus in a compact fashion, allowing the linking to many articles from the main page. Thoughts? --Qwerty 22:06, 9 May 2007 (BST)
    • That extension sounds good, but Tych currently doesn't have FTP access and I don't expect Hitomi to bother with this site, as he works on PSUTopia now. Once it is installed I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with. Mewn 14:36, 10 May 2007 (BST)
    • Here you go. One CategoryTree extension, yo. - Tycho 18:30, 10 May 2007 (BST)
      • Doesn't look like this is necessarily what is needed as it is an automated tree generator. The only way this will work is with a lot of clean up of associated categories. At that point it would work (possibly quite nicely), but everyone would need to be very vigilant about keeping their entries properly maintained or they would never make it into the tree. --JustTrio 15:45, 2 August 2007 (BST)
      • BTW, was AJAX enabled ($wgUseAjax = true;)? Clicking the + doesn't do anything other than say "loading" -- In any case, a lot of work will be needed to make this work in a useful manner, given that there would be multiple paths all leading back to the same thing. Weapons has Rifles underneath it along with Two Handed Weapons -> Rifles and Ranged Weapons -> Rifles. --JustTrio 16:04, 2 August 2007 (BST)

monsters have 2 pages each

• There is a double page for monster data one at http://www.psupedia.info/index.php?title=Monsters and one at http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Category:Monsters. These links should for each monster should all link tothe same monster page. Loki 16:04, 17 April 2007 (CST)
• Category:Monsters is an auto-generated page created by placing individual articles into the Monster category, hence it just serves as a listing of all the monster articles in the game. The purpose for this is different than the standard Monsters page, which to me would seem rather data-heavy when I just wanted to look through the Monsters category. In addition, there are further subcategories (Colony Monsters, S-Rank Monsters, Rare Monsters etc.) that would be pointless if the Category was made to redirect to the Monsters article. I don't like the idea of making them the same article anyway - the whole purpose of the Category: articles is merely to provide perhaps a bit of text and a listing of the articles within that category and little else. My $0.02. Mewn 23:10, 18 April 2007 (BST)

Fourth-Stage Alternate PMs

I've started work on a table for the specifics of the alternate battle-capable PM models. It's in the Sandbox at the moment; I figured I should make it easy for other people to contribute as well.

• Once I got my main character's PM to lvl 80 (410), I took 'her' into a couple of free missions, and did fairly well. A few days later, I bought the 411 upgrade on a whim (an expensive, 50k whim but oh well ^_^; ).
• Turns out, I much prefer the 411 to the 410. My main's FT, and I Strike-leveled his PM with the intent of using 'her' as a defensive wall. The 411's sword PA is Tornado Break (level 21+, with all three hits!), which is much better for my purposes than the 410's Spinning Break.
• I'm bringing this up here because I think players should have the detailed information about the alternate PM models WITHOUT having to blow the 50k and test one out themselves. I lucked out and got exactly what I wanted, but I could have gone with the 412 and ended up very dissatisfied AND out 50,000 precious meseta (for the character's level, he perpetually broke!).

Anyway, on with life. Players in the know, please help your fellows who aren't, and assist me in completing this table? Thanks. Trooper1023 05:41, 25 July 2007 (BST)