Difference between revisions of "The re-PSUPedia:Raffon Field Base"

Revision as of 01:57, 19 February 2008

Welcome to Raffon Field Base, the page where you can discuss and ask questions about PSUPedia!

• This page is for general discussion about the PSUPedia.
  • Unlike the actual Raffon Field Base, it's not for chit-chat, trading or anything else that has nothing to do with PSUPedia, or its contents.
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Enjoy! - the PSUPedia Staff.

Archived Discussions

There are currently no archived discussions. Discussions will be archived when deemed necessary to prevent the page from becoming too big.

Current Discussions

Old template pages

I know this is probably asking for a lot, and I really shouldn't be so picky with it. But would somebody be able to compile a list of enemy, weapon, whatever pages that haven't been changed to the new standard template? I'd like to fix those, but really don't know where to start. - Saiffy 12:35, 12 November 2007 (CST)

• After I made a similar list for the mission articles, I was considering doing the same for weapons, enemies, etc. It will take a boat load of time to do, but it's still possible. I'd suggest in the meantime to not worry about enemies, as I still need to make a few tweaks (in the way of a new infobox like what we're using for the mission articles) to the standard before mass-implementation. As for weapons, for now just select a weapon category from the list and work your way down (or up) checking each link to see if it's been converted over. Actually, I think that might be better than compiling a list since there would probably end up being hundreds of entries on that list. So, I guess enemies would be the major workload for something like this. Anyway, I'll see what I can do when I've got a chance. I'm at work right now, but will have to go shortly as I've got a project coming in very soon that I'll have to get started on. And thanks for your help! We really appreciate it!  :D - EspioKaos 12:47, 12 November 2007 (CST)
• Enemy list! Didn't take nearly as long as I thought it would. I still need to work out a few things with the infobox we'll use, so let's hold off on these articles for the time being.  ;) - EspioKaos 13:16, 12 November 2007 (CST)
• Oh Christ, I did my own one. Enemy Article List. Still I forgot about Espio's new infobox, so his one is the correct one. - Mewn 13:48, 12 November 2007 (CST)
• While on the topic, the PA pages have been long neglected, and I know we shouldn't be trying to put too much on the table at once, but I made(Or stole) a possible template that I think is much easier to read for each PA here. Now, I don't think each PA having their own page is really neccesary, but I think maybe each weapon type should have their own page for skills, rather than the cluttered mess we currently have. And, of course, anyones free to make a different template, or edit mine. It's not very original, obviously. But I somewhat like the consistently. --Saiffy 23:58, 12 November 2007 (CST)
  • I like the idea of each PA having its own page.  ;) Something very similar to what you have would be nice, but I think we should make some adjustments to the table designs to accommodate PA-specific info. (That one tiny table just looks a little funny.) When I have enough time, I'll try to run some ideas through my head. If I come up with anything I like, I'll throw together an article for it. - EspioKaos 11:45, 14 November 2007 (CST)
• Seems good to me, although PP cost does increase at level 11 and 21 for all PAs, I think. Might be better to put that under Att./Acc. mods. - Mewn 03:23, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Suggestions

I've been thinking about various things to do around here lately, and I've realized there is much more than needs to be done than one person can do, or even remember at once. I propose that we add a new project page that describes in some detail (and prioritizes) various projects and edits that need to be completed. Or even just leaving it here would be fine, as long as we have a list of things for intrepid contributors to work on. So far, I've compiled the following list:

→ With the 7Up Cup soon approaching, I would like to edit the 1Up Platinum Cup page with more information, incorporating all the stuff conveniently listed here. Additionally, I'd like to get drop charts up for each mission (and EX mission, mostly), so people know what drops where. I'd like to have this done before the start of the event, though I myself do not have the time to do it all.
→ With the changes in AoI (only the beginning of which we are starting to see from the JP version), the S-Rank Listing page's drop column is starting to look a little strained. For this and the sake of simplicity, I would like to eventually have drop charts for each and every mission, either incorporated into the mission page, or (preferably) on their own page. This would be a long term project, as it obviously would require quite a lot of effort from many individuals, but it is something that should be done at some point. While we're on the topic, I should note that only rare or otherwise noteworthy items would be mentioned in these charts. Things such as Moon X boards or rare ores (which drop anywhere) would be left out.
→ As discussed recently on my user talk page, if at all possible, we would like find someone capable of programming a stat gathering and calculating tool to be hosted on the site. It would have to be separate from the wiki framework, unfortunately.
→ Failing the above, it would behoove us to create several "information gathering" pages, in which users could display their stats for various race/type/level/etc. These could then be used to create summary articles with updated stat modifiers and the like for AoI.
→ Similarly, we may want to create pages for gathering synthesis rate information, since these data will also be changing somewhat drastically with AoI. There is currently no resource that lists such information, so I reckon many would find it useful.
→ Many weapon pages (but most importantly S-Ranks) still need to be either created or updated to the new format, and the vast majority lack pictures. I would like to encourage anyone who has the time and resource to help create new pages when able. Additionally, I would like to post a topic on the official forum (and possibly POSW) requesting pictures to be submitted for the articles. If anyone remembers Keg's picture request topic from the BB forum, something along those lines, except users could just upload the pictures here directly.
→ Similar to the above topic, I would like to begin collecting images of the new AoI weapons, just to give viewers a taste for what is to come, or to show off new weapon manufacturers.
→ I'd really like to get a new logo for the corner up there. The radish looks awesome and all, but it has nothing to do with PSU whatsoever, and frankly it seems silly. → I've more ideas, but I can't think of them at the moment.

So, any and all comments on any part of these suggestions would be much appreciated. --Qwerty 01:20, 11 October 2007 (BST)

• • I was always under the impression it was supposed to be a vine leaf. >_> - Tycho 08:42, 12 October 2007 (BST)
    • You're probably right, but it looks rather silly regardless. Anyway, I threw together a few example logos in my spare time. I'm not going to lie, these don't look very good (though better than the ones I made a while back), but it gives an idea of what we could potentially do. Personally, I'd prefer if we could just get some very simple (yet still PSU-oriented) picture with a transparent background, like the current one. --Qwerty 04:40, 13 October 2007 (BST)
      • Yeah, something simple would be nice I guess. I'd say the first logo thingy is out right away for its aggressive colours (sorry to be blunt), but the Colony Square one doesn't look bad at all. As for the text, I like the black font better (more subtle than the blue one), but as for the contents I somehow always preferred omitting the 'the', whyever it was part of the site name in the first place. ~_~ - Tycho 10:28, 14 October 2007 (BST)

• At one point I tried to make a 'to do' page, and subsequently Hitomi did (which still exists by the way), but they ended up being neglected mostly. As for stat modifiers, the easiest way to figure them out is probably using the available (Japanese) sites. I reckon those would be far more relevant than 'level xxx male human base stats', so from there on it should be easy mostly. If I could get some tips on how to go about implementing a stat gathering/calculation system I'd still totally do it by the way (since certain other sites might be closed down at any time). In any case, good initiative. - Tycho 12:00, 11 October 2007 (BST)
• I've kind of been holding off on creating new weapon articles (excluding Illuminus-exclusives) since so much of the data on our current arsenal will be changed next month (or thereabouts). We could, of course, get a jump on things by gathering the changed stats and storing them on weapon talk pages until the change. Also, one thing I think should be added to the list is the redesign of the front page. I'll see if I can think of anything else, but for now, I've got to get back to work. D: - EspioKaos 19:09, 11 October 2007 (BST)
• Weapon images here. Obviously still a lot of weapons I haven't/can't get my hands on. Includes some old S-Ranks such as Skela and Muzzlefever because I wanted pics of them. - Mewn 19:53, 11 October 2007 (BST)
  • Just wow. I'm amazed; quite some of these look simply stunning (Cubo Simba, Okarod, Vambrella, to name a few). Awesome job. :> - Tycho 23:58, 11 October 2007 (BST)
  • Indeed. Anyway, I'm debating whether we should start adding those images for items, as I think it would be preferable to get an assortment of images from various characters, just for the sake of variety. As for weapon pages, I see no problem in going ahead and making them. The only major thing that will change with AoI is synth percents, and we don't know most of those anyway. But yes, those pics are indeed nice. --Qwerty 01:37, 12 October 2007 (BST)
    • We might as well use them. I agree on the variety thing, but we can always add new pictures later. Once I get my new contutor (<_<), I'll finally be able to start contributing weapon pictures. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that we can just move some of these pictures to the gallery at the bottom of a page when we start getting new characters using the weapons. - EspioKaos 14:50, 14 October 2007 (BST)

Category cleanup

After creating and categorizing some random item articles, I realized how overgrown the categories section is. It needs to be spruced up something fierce. I mean, do we really need categories for each star rarity of each weapon, item or material? Personally, I think the categories should be shrunk down to a much more reasonable size by removing the filler, especially since most have barely been used. EspioKaos 16:44, 11 August 2007 (BST)

• At the time I figured a complex hierarchical cross-category system might make up for one of the weaknesses of wikis over regular database systems: providing complex searching functionality. I got kind of frustrated, but eventually came to the conclusion wikis and database systems just have different strengths, that at this point seem to be very hard to combine into one. At the time I liked ideas like the templates that would automatically put items into 'Items containing <Ingredient>' categories or whatever it was, though it seems to be gone now. Eventually I gave up and decided I felt like pages dedicated to a single item would be best left to db systems that could just automatically generate them, but didn't want to force my opinion onto others, and stopped trying to work on developing item database templates (the ones I did make were a terrible mess, and mostly aimed to imitate real databases by converting all raw data into tables and automatically adding any derived values, such as PM feeding bonuses). Now, I feel that way even more strongly, because the times have changed -- PSOW is doing a way better on job on its item database as it used to. Kef finally started helping them out too, and although I'm not quite seeing them adding unicode or multi-lingual support yet, and even though I strongly oppose sorting items that largely fit logical patterns by alphabetic order (currently taken into account for the most part, although for weapons 'Brand' has yet to be made the tertiary sorting method after weapon types and star rarity), they're doing just about anything else. That's just me though -- I wouldn't have a clue anymore how much people actually use the in-depth item articles over here. Depending on that, yeah, the huge category overload might be obsolete. - Tycho 11:21, 11 October 2007 (BST)

Individual Weapon Page Redesign Discussion: Join In!

Announcing this so more people'll see it: In light of the weapon info template's broken nature, several of us have been proposing redesigns for those pages.

Querty's is here, and this is my counterproposal. Join the discussion and say which one you like better, or how either could be improved! F Gattaca 14:44, 1 August 2007 (BST)

Attention Duelists: New Weapon Page Standard

For any intrepid young editors interested in helping out the 'pedia, here is a link to the new standard for weapon pages. For examples of this new standard in use, see Axes, Spears, Swords. Thank you, and have a wonderful day. --Beatrixkiddo 02:43, 29 July 2007 (BST)

User pages

Gonna make it quick. A lot of people have been making user pages for themselves, and not contributing at all to the site. It gets annoying having to sort through all the recent edits when theres a bunch of user page edits in. This isn't directed at anyone really, but I doubt anyone who does it even checks RFB or recent edits. It's really not that big a deal, moreso a personal irk, but eh, I thought it can't hurt to bring it up -- Saiffy 03:05, 6 August 2007 (BST)

• They could always be seperated from the main wiki, much like EspioKaos mentioned about having offline.psupedia, maybe there could be a matchup.psupedia? could work for guilds/teams. Guild wars has started doing this with their wikis and guilds. Guild list & Guild example --JubeiSaotome 22:29, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Wait a damn minute, here!

Over the past half year I've taken to working on the article for Machineguns and the indivdual weapons themselves since they're mostly neglected by other editors here at PSUPedia. At times, I feel like I'm the only one adding and editing to it. Notcing a nicer version of the weapons stats tables in other articles, I blended its style with the information I added to the Machineguns article.

I was told someone had reverted the work I had put into the article recently and found a rather abrasive comment by Beatrixkiddo, who had mostly undid my work. Pardon me, but I have not seen a Manual of Style on this website nor any notice here at Raffon about a discussion of such. I looked through here and did a few searches of the site; hell, I even looked at the discussion page for Weapons. Nothing. I told him to show me just where his less-detailed version of the table is the official standard and I would concede; Qwerty re-reverted the article with a link to an obscure Sandbox page.

He clams that page contains "the new standard" and that most of my information "was deemed unnecessary," but I can't discern any sort of concensus or decree in that sandbox page's discussion to say whether or not a standard was authorized! I see a few comments on what design people like best, some suggestions, but that's it.

While I'm annoyed with Beatrix's attitude towards my efforts, I'm not fuming over having my work "stepped on." I fully realize that this is an open encyclopedia and anything added is open to editing. What I'm irritated with is the lack of clarity and visibility pertaining to something that's, apparently, a standard. A standard in which much of the information I had been adding was "unnecessary" and open to removal with accompanying snide remarks. If "standards are there for a reason" I damn well think there should be clearly marked information about it. Even Wikipedia does that!

Somebody's probably going to say that it's my responsibility to inspect the Recent Changes and that I would have seen the discussion in progress, but I don't prowl the Recent Changes (much less this site) from day to day to know when discussions about style are taking place, much less in poorly marked sandboxes, and I'm sure I'm not the only one! F Gattaca 20:33, 28 July 2007 (BST)

• lolk. What attitude? I said in my comment I hated to step on your feet, but that there was a standard. Obviously you noticed there was a new weapons page style in place (since you used it for the machinegun page). All other pages that I (and others such as Miraglyth) have converted to the new style lack the JP Name, Buy Price, Sell Price, etc, which I removed from your edit. I did not "completely remove" your work. I removed the things you kept that the new standard does not use. I don't "prowl" the Recent Changes either, but all it would have taken on your part was a quick comment on my talk page "Why did you modify my edit?", not a revert of my edit. If you'd like to discuss things civilly, the sky's the limit. As for Qwerty's revert of your revert; he's a SysOp, and has every right to do so. His comment was not "an obscure sandbox", it was the place of discussion where this new standard was discussed for quite some time. Due to a lack of responses other than me, Mewn, Qwerty, and I think Tycho, Miraglyth decided to forge ahead with his choice for the standard. Feel free to contact me if you have anything else you'd like to ask about. --Beatrixkiddo 02:40, 29 July 2007 (BST)

• Hello, Mr. Gattaca. I believe I played with you a few nights ago. At any rate, you are correct in stating that the discussion on the spear sandbox page was far from conclusive, and although it was not noted anywhere (now noted above), the table format currently in use on Spears and the like was the one that has been chosen, and it is slowly but steadily being implemented. Do not think that we do not value your contributions, as that is certainly not true. However, you must accept that article standards will be changed, and some of your contributions may be altered. Thus is the nature of the beast. It would be great if we could have announcements and such for whenever a standard or template has changed, but the core contributing group of this wiki is but a few individuals, all of whom have other obligations and cannot afford to pour in the time needed to note every template/standard change meticulously. Hell, we can't even find time to change all the weapon type pages to the new template, much less the time needed to make a consistent "Manual of Style". So please, bear with us. If things seem really disorganized and confusing, they probably are. Now, regarding Beatrixkiddo's comment, I do not think he was rude, and I know that he certainly was not intending to seem rude. If you wish to discuss this further, just go ahead and leave me a note on my talk page or something. --Qwerty 05:46, 30 July 2007 (BST)
  • I'm unsure if the two of you are even aware of this statement in my original comment, since you've both seen fit to lecture me about the nature of PSUPedia's open editability/Querty's rights as a sysop, but I'm not fuming over having my work "stepped on." I fully realize that this is an open encyclopedia and anything added is open to editing. All editing pages have a warning about this! Again, it was the whole lack of clear standards and Beatrixkiddo's attitude concerning them ("standards are there for a reason" when standards aren't actually there--not to mention his "lolk" attitude here) that has me fuming.
    
    I suppose Beatrixkiddo's providing a link here to the specific table in question on that sandbox is a step forward in the right direction, but I suggest a more permanent solution. It should be possible to create more "The PSUPedia" articles; having a sidebar link pointing to a Manual of Style page with subpages concerning different preferred layouts/tables/terminology would make this much more accessible to everyone.
    
    On that note; yes, Beatrixkiddo, the Spears sandbox was obscure and would continue to be had you not linked it here--as far as I can tell your link to it here at Raffon is the only place to find it on this site save Querty's link in the Machineguns edit history. For starters, it's a subpage of the main sandbox, and the whole discussion about standards took place there as well. The discussion didn't happen in a more visible area such as, say, the Weapons discussion page, nor was there any notice/announcement that I can see so that people could voice their opinions about what they personally find useful.
    
    Just keep in mind; this kind of thing will matter every time SEGA introduces an expansion that has a new subset of weapons. If this kind of thing wasn't brought to light, people like me who aren't "in" on secluded agreements to use a standard will have this problem when they go to make articles on Whips, Madoogs and Shadoogs. F Gattaca 04:30, 31 July 2007 (BST)
    • If you have the time to develop a Manual of Style, then be my guest. Unfortunately, I don't have time, and neither do the other regular contributors, who number around five by my count, by the way. Everything you say is true (except the comment on Beatrixkiddo being rude, trust me, he had no intention of seeming snarky). Unfortunately, we're all too busy to deal with it right now. Can you at least appreciate that fact? You just have to appreciate that if any of the regular contributors changes something and references some new standard, we do know what we are talking about, even if it isn't clear immediately. --Qwerty 04:53, 31 July 2007 (BST)
      • I'm starting on a Manual of Style right now. I'm at work right now, however, so I probably won't be able to get much done with it until later. But, let's all try to make this a priority of ours. We need to officially document a uniform style and put it into use. I've seen way too many people elsewhere say that they don't like how unprofessional and sloppy certain articles look here due to a lack of uniformity. EspioKaos 15:34, 31 July 2007 (BST)
      • I agree it should be a priority, I'm not exactly sure what to put in a Manual of Style though, but yeah, the site does need to be consistent. Oh, and Gattaca, you say you're 'fuming' - well, I suggest you calm down a bit. Beatrixkiddo has proven his worth as a contributor, as have you, and he was not attempting to be rude to you. Hot-headedness will only create problems here, so I'd like to see a little less of it on all sides, thanks. - Mewn 16:10, 31 July 2007 (BST)
        • Believe me, Querty; if I knew how to add special "Wiki:" pages (not to mention adding them to the sidebar), I'd volunteer to take care of it myself. However, I think at least part of that is only doable by admins. EpisoKaos is already starting a Manual of Style page, so I will help get the ball rolling there.
          
          And Mewn--much of the querulousness I have concerning Beatrixkiddo and the "hidden standard" that resulted in the removal of much of my work stems from his attitude compounded with the wasted time invested in developing the article as I did. I actually spent a few hours clumsily trying to understand the new table format and then modifying it to accept what information already existed in the Machineguns article. I understand that pretty much all of you agree he wasn't rude, though my perspective differs. Perhaps it's just my experience with people on the internet who will use smilies/tongue emotes or some form of "friendly" or "inoffensive" chaff to cover snide/abrasive behavior (PVP Online has observed this) that I've come to expect it. Beatrixkiddo's "lolk" attitude only reinforced my opinion.
          
          When it comes to anger over wasted time, it's in some ways similar to the animosity people feel on Wikipedia when they toil over an article, striving to make it informative, well written, and adequately sourced ... only to see the article deleted by others. It can be quite discouraging, you know?
          
          At any rate, I don't want to have this problem again, and I'd rather not see it happen to others. I've already added a preliminary guide on the Manual of Style concerning the weapons table format with some pointers of how it works and what to do. I based the "example and code" table on Wikipedia's own manual of style pages, modified for PSUPedia's preferred table appearance.
          F Gattaca 18:55, 31 July 2007 (BST)

money and mission points info

has any 1 madde a table of the money and misson points onall the diffrent ranke for each mission? please respond _{-- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Naptownz Elite.}

• Naptownz Elite, please sign your comments and work on your spelling. You are looking for Mission Chart, by the way. --Qwerty 20:24, 9 July 2007 (BST)

Offline info\Enemy Info

Is it really that neccesary to have info on offline weapons/enemies/whatever? Maybe it's just me, but some of the pages look really, really, well, bad with all that crap. And I think it's safe to assume that most, if not all, people use PSUPedia for online info.

Totally unrelated, but I also think the pages for enemies should be reworked so all of them follow the same layout. Show level per mission, exp, HP. If someone can make a layout, I'd gladly add in all the info. Eventually add in drops too, perhaps. Examples: http://psupedia.info/Gol_Dolva http://psupedia.info/Badira http://psupedia.info/Goshin They're all pretty different, and some are missing info. Saiffy 22:24, 2 July 2007 (BST)

• Sign your blasted comments. Also, I've been starting to do this in the weapon articles, see Spears or Wands for examples. - Miraglyth 20:34, 2 July 2007 (BST)
• Forgot tildes LOL.

I'll just have to steal that layout and fix up other weapon types then :3 Saiffy 22:24, 2 July 2007 (BST)

• Great stuff! Hope you stick around for a while :) - Miraglyth 01:34, 3 July 2007 (BST)

• I think it's a good thing that it has offline info - I can't play online and use PSUPedia a lot.Granted, it's lack of info about offline drops annoys me, but.. eh. I think I will try and correct that on my next playthrough (I plan to slow down then) Tokorona 02:50, 6 July 2007 (BST)

• I agree with Tokorona, the offline info is necessary for people like me who prefer to try out various gaming strategies in the Extra mode, where meseta is plentiful and level-ups come quickly. Trooper1023 05:27, 25 July 2007 (BST)

Question on Style

I was discussing with someone about some edits to a certain article. I was told that my edits required dumbing down because my use of speech was far too elaborate. It kind of caught me off guard, but it now strikes me as a more sweeping issue then something limited to a singular article. So, I am going to pose the question here. Is my use of speech far too elaborate to be used in these articles of PSUpedia? Or shall I try to stick to a more simplistic array of words? It is not like I am intentionally trying to pull fancy words out of my rear, I just normally write like this, I blame my father. In either case, I'm going to leave the question of style here, how elaborate is too elaborate? --Ccelizic 20:05, 13 June 2007 (BST)

• I have a somewhat similarly elaborate style of writing too, which is natural for me. I'd say it doesn't really matter, so long as you are getting the message across. People don't necessarily have to write like you to understand what you write, so I see no need to dumb down. I'd just make a general point, not aimed at anyone in particular, to avoid obvious things such as slang, internet terms or phrases (even popular ones), irrelevant and/or esoteric jargon, and words which will likely confuse people or send them scuttering to dictionary.com. I suppose also it's worth noting that this is supposed to be a resource for any and all players (even Japanese ones, if we ever trump their sites), and obviously not everyone has such a good grasp of English as native speakers do. Mewn 02:32, 14 June 2007 (BST)
• What Mewn said. --Qwerty 03:30, 14 June 2007 (BST)
• It would also be a good point that not everyone that uses this site is on the same education level. Gamers of all ages use this site so some reservation on using large words need to be taken. Remember a twenty-seven year old English major can write using words that a twelve year old middle school student wouldn't even know where to begin translating into understandable, useful language. Don’t consider this to be dumbing down as much as it is making anything you write understandable to a wide audience. LillostXSoul 04:47, July 23, 2007 (CST)

Project:Copyrights

Look at that block of text below your editor window. It goes on saying how this is released under the GNU Free Documentation Liscense 1.2. And then, as you can see it directs the user to look at Project:Copyrights for more information. Now, that link spits over to something nonexisitant. Is that intentional? Do we need someone to get that legal information in there? Did ninja kidnap it? Or is that some link that needs to be removed from the editor page? Maybe I'm obssessing over something asinine, but it seemed to strike me as something worth bringing up. --Ccelizic 06:39, 13 June 2007 (BST)

• It's something the wiki system kinda automatically generates whether or not people are going to use it, IIRC. Looks like Hitomi is the last one that changed it, and a quick search for 'tsukimono' reveals that it probably isn't going to be editable from the wiki itself. I'd get to the file and change it, but then again, I just never bothered to find out what file/directory it's in anyway. >_> - Tycho 10:35, 11 October 2007 (BST)

Massive edits

To those who edit/add to this site, can I ask you to PLEASE use the preview button? It's not that far away from the submit button. It lowers the ammount of posts listed in the Recent Changes page. It just gets in the way and makes it harder to keep track of what's been updated. Thank you for reading this.Rydia 08:17, 30 March 2007 (BST)

• Not to mock you, but while this is a talk page, the "Raffon Field Base" project means to leave comments in the article itself! - Miraglyth 17:37, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • Oops ^_^ My appologies. Wasn't totaly sure where I was supposed to place this.Rydia 18:27, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • I'll take the liberty of moving it. For the record: I agree with you, 2 or maybe even 3 edits to correct mistakes made is acceptable... but when you start seeing six or more consecutive edits on the same article, it starts to seem like a piss-take. I would urge people to use the Preview function, and better yet, to check and double check what they have put. Mewn 20:07, 30 March 2007 (BST)
  • Even failing that, the least people could do would be to use the "Summary" box to detail the cause of so many edits. - Miraglyth 04:05, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • Well, people don't seem to have taken much notice of this, and the same sections of articles are repeatedly being edited over a small period of time by the same person. Is there anything anyone can think of to stop this, without being ridiculously harsh? Mewn 21:14, 1 April 2007 (BST)
  • Is it possible to put a timer on how quickly a single account can edit one page? If you could put this on then people would be forced to either use the preview effectively or wait an incredibly long time to complete a page, I'm not sure on the limitations of this Wiki, so it's just an idea. Wormania 23:55, 1 April 2007 (BST)

Planet Maps

Can someone get/compile a map of the planets, with locations? The small cut of the maps on the mission screen, is not really helpful for an overview. _{- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Mixilli.}

• Before I lost the net I was working on some maps. I made only 1 map so far, Linear Line "A" path(I call it A, not the A from Rare Monster's Page). Maybe I sould do that again. It was a challange, but fun. Rydia 04:58, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • I thought Mixilli meant the planets themselves, with "the mission screen" being referred to as the overhead "map" screen you get when at the mission counters. - Miraglyth 05:12, 31 March 2007 (BST)
    • Huh. beats me really. hough I wouldn't mind maping as much of he game as I can and is needed of me. Maybe I could do "box" locaions better then my original map. Rydia 07:33, 31 March 2007 (BST)
  • I've been maintaining a map of all the missions for each planet, just for my own use. It shows how they link up, and what level enemies there are. I could make an image of these if that would be helpful. Pob 11:08, 4 April 2007 (BST)
• Quite late, but here you are; Parum, Neudaiz, Moatoob; stolen straight from PSU-Wiki's image board (originals [1]~9.jpeg; ugly filled-up versions I can't seem to get to Photobucket [2]~7.jpeg). Sorry, no Colony one. :< - Tycho 10:59, 11 October 2007 (BST)

Rappy Paska

• Isn't easter rappies called Rappy Baska not Rappy Paska? i changed it to baska but sum1 changed it to Paska. _{- The preceeding unsigned comment was added by Wild Goose.}
  • In-game they are called Rappy Paska. Yes, this does mean that the English website preview is wrong. - Miraglyth 03:09, 25 March 2007 (BST)
    • Most likely a mistranslation on SoA's part. Rappy Paska in katakana is ラッピー･パスカ (Rappii Pasuka) whereas Baska would be バスカ. Kinda easy to mistranslate the first kana due to the similar symbols. Paska is correct, however, as it probably refers to Paska bread. Mewn 12:27, 25 March 2007 (BST)
      • Interesting, I always figured it was a bastardization of the word "paschal," but I guess the bread makes sense too. SoA was probably thinking Baska as in Easter Basket. --Qwerty 17:30, 25 March 2007 (BST)
        • Could be. I guess they were trying to americanize it? but yea easter basket= Baska.--Wild Goose 19:56, 25 March 2007 (BST)
          • lol, multi-lingualism. Actually I think the chance SoJ knows about Ukranian easter bread is pretty slim. Check this; half of the article names in other languages it refers to are similar to this. Really, the English term is the odd one out. - Tycho 18:01, 27 March 2007 (BST)
            • it really is an odd one. it is basically the only one that does not sound like the hebrew wording. i guess we hav to be unique :)--Wild Goose 21:42, 27 March 2007 (BST)
          • Heh, I didn't notice that, Tych. Admittedly, I only know Easter in three languages (English, French - Pâques, and German - Ostern) and thought the whole Paska thing too much the same to be mere coincidence. A shame if it was just a reference to Pascha or whatever, at least a reference to Ukranian bread would be far more interesting than just 'hay guyz we bastardized Easter in a foreign language lol'. Mewn 01:19, 28 March 2007 (BST)

New item container

New Item Box

• I found this on easter peril i have some pics of it. the wierd part was its on the ceiling. i dont know if it has any better droprate than normal. Loki 16:11, 14 April 2007 (CST)
  • Not sure if they have any particular higher droprate. I've heard they can drop Something Sweet but I don't really know, maybe someone else here knows more than me. Mewn 23:25, 14 April 2007 (BST)
    • That has been known about since the day Eastern Peril came out. They just seem to have a slightly different drop list than the other containers, often dropping Something Sweet, buff items, and Scape Dolls. They also drop assorted berries. --Qwerty 03:43, 15 April 2007 (BST)
• Yeah, unfortunately, different kinds of containers do have different drops, but the PSU guide book thing never elaborated on this much. D: - Tycho 10:24, 11 October 2007 (BST)

Main page linking

I understand the use of the search box, but i do feel that the site could use some bettermain page linking to other pages. For example AoI is in hot discussion right now, but there is no way to get there unless you do a search or go to categories. Im not trying to put this job off on anyone else, but im not very good with wiki editing and parts or the main page are restricted to normal users. Tell me what you think. And on a side note, what happened to the pick of the day idea, or even pick of the week, that would be cool. Loki 21:41, 17 April 2007 (CST)

• I think I was the only person who's really been pushing for additions of this nature - for example, I've done a small amount of fiddling with a possible new Navigation section. The trouble IMO is that almost nobody else seems to care. For similar reasons our Photon Fortune situation is awful, our Rare Monsters tables are still inconsistent and ugleh despite work to improve it and the "new logos" work has amounted to nothing. - Miraglyth 18:56, 18 April 2007 (BST)
  • I see the work you do around here, and I for one really apreciate it. I not entirely wiki knowlegable, in fact this is the first one ive worked on, but an online game of this nature can not have its guides created by a single person. It is way to massive, and there is way to much data to be compiled to rest on the shoulders of one. Im trying my best here and if there is anything you want help with im game. The PSU community needs to help each other out. Loki 15:38, 18 April 2007 (CST)
  • I really do like your work on Rare Monsters tables better than the current one. What refrain you from adding it? (Beside the hard work). Also, that would be better with links to monsters pages. The really good thing with yours is that everything fit on the screen. Anyway if you need help adding this design, please ask. Essen 15:54, 25 April 2007 (BST)
    • It's that nobody else in the discussion pages for Qwerty or myself have lent any support or criticism. There's no point mass-implementing something of this scale only to have people then turn around and say "Oh no let's go back to the old one." so I'm stuck doing nothing until people - regulars and sysops - actually say something ¬_¬ - Miraglyth 23:48, 25 April 2007 (BST)
    • I believe I lent my support for it... Mewn 09:04, 26 April 2007 (BST)
• I agree that we need a better sort of "site-map" or directory of some sort, or at least we need to reorganize which links are in the main menu, because otherwise entire articles can get overlooked (sort of like the two I worked out today, there's no real good place from which to link them in the current setup). While I am not terribly familiar with the functioning of categories, templates, or table coding, I can try to work on something now that schoolwork is finally letting up. I'd also like to see us reorganize the Rare Monsters page to make it fit with the template Miraglyth has worked out. These are all things I've wanted to do for a while, but thus far I've been too preoccupied with shoolwork and pestering Mira on the forums to work them out. Hopefully we can make some headway on this stuff in the coming weeks. --Qwerty
  • Just another comment: I think expandable/collapsible menus might help a lot with organizing things, either in the sidebar or on the main page. However, it seems that can only be done with javascript, and I sure as hell don't know any java, nor do I even know if it would work in the wiki context. Either way, it's something to consider. I may also try to draw up a rough sitemap later tonight if I have time. --Qwerty 19:10, 9 May 2007 (BST)
    • Me yet again. I found some wiki extension that allows for the creation of collapsible menus and such. I'm assuming Tycho or HitmonCHAN would have to install this then, yes? It does seem like something that would be very helpful for organizing menus in a compact fashion, allowing the linking to many articles from the main page. Thoughts? --Qwerty 22:06, 9 May 2007 (BST)
    • That extension sounds good, but Tych currently doesn't have FTP access and I don't expect Hitomi to bother with this site, as he works on PSUTopia now. Once it is installed I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with. Mewn 14:36, 10 May 2007 (BST)
    • Here you go. One CategoryTree extension, yo. - Tycho 18:30, 10 May 2007 (BST)
      • Doesn't look like this is necessarily what is needed as it is an automated tree generator. The only way this will work is with a lot of clean up of associated categories. At that point it would work (possibly quite nicely), but everyone would need to be very vigilant about keeping their entries properly maintained or they would never make it into the tree. --JustTrio 15:45, 2 August 2007 (BST)
      • BTW, was AJAX enabled ($wgUseAjax = true;)? Clicking the + doesn't do anything other than say "loading" -- In any case, a lot of work will be needed to make this work in a useful manner, given that there would be multiple paths all leading back to the same thing. Weapons has Rifles underneath it along with Two Handed Weapons -> Rifles and Ranged Weapons -> Rifles. --JustTrio 16:04, 2 August 2007 (BST)
      • I guess this is no longer being looked at. I have to guess that AJAX wasn't enabled based on the things I'm seeing when using the CategoryTree extension. --JustTrio 16:48, 15 August 2007 (BST)
        • This would be very useful, especially if we're planning on cleaning up the categories anyway. So, who might be able to enable AJAX to get these working proper? EspioKaos 16:54, 15 August 2007 (BST)
          • Tycho and Hitomichan are the only ones who can do it. Tycho is allegedly in Mexico, and Hitmonchan...yeah. Uh, anyway, I'm actually now thinking list pages might be better than this, simply because they would be easier to implement. And no, we haven't forgotten about this, we're simply too busy with other things at the moment. --Qwerty 19:10, 15 August 2007 (BST)
          • Monthly checkin on the AJAX question :) Category cleanup + CategoryTree might be a good thing... Is anyone back from the wild? --JustTrio 14:34, 21 September 2007 (BST)
            • I'd suggest leaving a note for Tycho on his user page, since he and Hitmonchan are the only ones with FTP access. I personally have no idea how to fix that stuff. --Qwerty 05:02, 22 September 2007 (BST)
              • Some others - self included - do, but I don't think it's to the level of being able to add stuff like that. - Miraglyth 21:04, 10 October 2007 (BST)
                • Yet I don't? DDDD: --Qwerty 21:08, 10 October 2007 (BST)
• Not going to count asterisks, but in any case, your interface proposals are awesome, Mira. I tried giving the Main Page a bit of an overhaul (at least swapping navigation and the introduction around), but whenever I did the code just seemed to mess up big. As for Ajax, I just checked the FTP, and actually it was included at the same time as the CategoreeTree extension, so I have no clue what went wrong. Currently, the part in question is as follows (omitting breaklines and surrounded by quotes): "require_once("$IP/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php" ); $wgUseAjax = true; require_once('extensions/CategoryTree/CategoryTree.php' ); $wgCategoryTreeOmitNamespace = true;". The two wiki extensions it seems to have installed properly, and the Ajax line was just a c-p as well, so then I have no clue what went wrong, unless they were supposed to be in completely different places in the files. In any case, I'll apologize for the delay -- I actually wasn't aware of this issue until now either. Anyway, looks like the new staff is going to need the FTP details as well. - Tycho 11:39, 11 October 2007 (BST)
  • While this is probably unimportant at this point, I just noticed that CategoryTree is mysteriously working all of the sudden. Well, whatever. It may yet prove useful for organizing pages, but perhaps not. --Qwerty 23:52, 23 January 2008 (CST)

monsters have 2 pages each

• There is a double page for monster data one at http://www.psupedia.info/index.php?title=Monsters and one at http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Category:Monsters. These links should for each monster should all link tothe same monster page. Loki 16:04, 17 April 2007 (CST)
• Category:Monsters is an auto-generated page created by placing individual articles into the Monster category, hence it just serves as a listing of all the monster articles in the game. The purpose for this is different than the standard Monsters page, which to me would seem rather data-heavy when I just wanted to look through the Monsters category. In addition, there are further subcategories (Colony Monsters, S-Rank Monsters, Rare Monsters etc.) that would be pointless if the Category was made to redirect to the Monsters article. I don't like the idea of making them the same article anyway - the whole purpose of the Category: articles is merely to provide perhaps a bit of text and a listing of the articles within that category and little else. My $0.02. Mewn 23:10, 18 April 2007 (BST)

Fourth-Stage Alternate PMs

I've started work on a table for the specifics of the alternate battle-capable PM models. It's in the Sandbox at the moment; I figured I should make it easy for other people to contribute as well.

• Once I got my main character's PM to lvl 80 (410), I took 'her' into a couple of free missions, and did fairly well. A few days later, I bought the 411 upgrade on a whim (an expensive, 50k whim but oh well ^_^; ).
• Turns out, I much prefer the 411 to the 410. My main's FT, and I Strike-leveled his PM with the intent of using 'her' as a defensive wall. The 411's sword PA is Tornado Break (level 21+, with all three hits!), which is much better for my purposes than the 410's Spinning Break.
• I'm bringing this up here because I think players should have the detailed information about the alternate PM models WITHOUT having to blow the 50k and test one out themselves. I lucked out and got exactly what I wanted, but I could have gone with the 412 and ended up very dissatisfied AND out 50,000 precious meseta (for the character's level, he perpetually broke!).

Anyway, on with life. Players in the know, please help your fellows who aren't, and assist me in completing this table? Thanks. Trooper1023 05:41, 25 July 2007 (BST)

• • Well, the table has been moved to Alternate PM Details, and officially adopted by PSUPedia! Thanks to everyone who helped! This little article can be archived now. Trooper1023 16:30, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Luck Table/Log Error

I usually check this table to see which of my characters have luck on a daily basis. Today there seems to be something wrong with the code. I have no idea how to even try to fix it. Maybe someone does? It was fine yesterday but when I went to check it today it was all messed up. --Renderingdragon 22:42, 10 August 2007 (BST)

Format comparison

I've been thinking of compiling a page on comparing each copy of psu. A page for users unsure of which version suits them, where they can see what effects them and makes life easier. For instance; PS2 version being poor, but better than nothing or 360 having a larger community and so on.

Was thinking of starting the page here; http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Format_Comparison&action=edit

I'll need help with information of what version has what pros and cons. Also, a style guide if possible, as i've been away from here in some time. - JubeiSaotome

• Remember to sign your comments. ;) I can see the use of an article detailing these things, but if it's created, it must remain objective. No favoritism or bias toward a particular platform can be displayed in the writing, for example. See the manual of style for formatting pointers and the like. - EspioKaos 11:48, 27 November 2007 (CST)
• If we do this, we have to proceed with extreme caution. This unfortunately neuters part of the article, since we really cannot make generalizations on the communities. I'm not actually sure it's necessary, but if done properly, it can't hurt. I will be watching the article intently though, and if at any point it appears it will be used to further platform elitism it will be deleted, whether that comes from the initial writing or by vandalism/further edits from other people. - Mewn 12:12, 27 November 2007 (CST)
  • Was totally going to have it unbiased, however, how would you go about mentioning slowdown and other problems? As for community, I'd really only be going as far as listing the average server star ratings for PC/PS2 and 360. --JubeiSaotome 00:39, 28 November 2007 (CST)
    • Unbiased as in avoiding jabs at particular platforms that would promote favoritism. Of course, I don't think you have any intent of writing anything like that, but as Mewn said, we'll have to keep a close eye on the article as I imagine it would eventually fall victim to vandalism by someone wishing to stir up platform elitism and such.  ;) We'll of course want to state the facts in the article, both the good and the bad, as long as it's not done in a way that shows obvious bias by a contributor toward a particular platform. - EspioKaos 13:11, 28 November 2007 (CST)

I've written the first version of the article, please go through and correct any biased information. Also, my table absolutly sucks. Platform_Comparison --JubeiSaotome 06:21, 29 November 2007 (CST)

Site overhaul

Correct me if I'm out of line. But I think the site is getting ready for an overhaul. May aswell, it's a new version of the game. Here's some things / projects I have in mind to improve the place;

• Mission center - A hub page for missions; Online, Offline, Story mode, Extra mode & ETC.
  • Mission strategies - Not for online free missions, because they are a sinch. Moreover for Network Story Missions, which seem to annoy people to no end. These pages could include mission data, points and rewards. I don't see a point in having 2 pages for one mission. That would be giving the users an extra step (Or more finding the page).
• Main Page / Navigation - Self explanitory, the navigation is out of date and needs links to AoI related changes, story missions, monster pokedex and ETC.
  • Main Page / Picture of the day/week - Wasn't this going to be implimented at some point? I don't see why it shouldn't be done, it will keep people coming back to see new images. This could even allow for image contests, improving site hits.
• Guides section - There's a category for guides, this MAY overlap with strategies within the mission center idea, but all it would need in that case would be links to each story mission. Aside from that, guides could range from; PM builds, Synth guides, Strategies for fast leveling and so forth.

Comments? --JubeiSaotome 04:03, 4 December 2007 (CST)

• I'll go through the points one-by-one:
  • Mission center - we could use one, certainly, all we have right now are temporary pages. We could use pages for lobbies as well, though they might be a bit sparse.
  • Mission strategies - agree, but I feel they should be links to another article (specifically marked as a guide) or an external link to another site.
  • Main Page Navigation - yes, this does need an overhaul, and that's been the general consensus for some time. No-one has really designed anything satisfactory though. Design isn't my forte, so if you have any ideas I'll leave it to you.
  • PotD/W - I think it's unnecessary, it's frivolous and nowhere near being objective information. If it gets support it can be done, but I'm just going to flat-out state that I will not be involved with it, since I have more important things to do on the site.
  • Guides - I wouldn't be opposed to having more guides as I did make special provision for them, but they have to be written, we can't just pull these things out of our asses (or from other sites). See above comment about more important things. - Mewn 10:38, 4 December 2007 (CST)
• My thoughts:
  • I'd like to come up with a more effective way of displaying all of the game's missions on one index page to have linked out to the individual articles. Ultimately, this would replace our current mission page.
  • Strategies could be put in pages such as Illuminus Ambition 2 (guide) and similarly indexed in the guides section.
  • I've been trying to think of a new main page navigation system, but can't seem to come up with something I like. One idea I had completely replaces the sidebar with our navigation links. Of course, all of our categories would have to be thinned down from what we have now. Wouldn't be a problem, as far as I see it. (It could use it, to be honest.)
  • Picture of the day/week. Like Mewn said, it'd be an unnecessary addition. I'd only see it as something else for us to try to keep up with updating, taking away from valuable time we could put to use for more important features.
  • Guides and strategies would do well lumped together. - EspioKaos 11:30, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Another main page idea I had was;

• New missions & Locations - The recent hill of spores set has been a bitch for common players to find, why not have something like this on the main page?--JubeiSaotome 00:14, 15 December 2007 (CST)
  • The details on things like where to find new missions used to go in the Updates page, but then I fell behind on that and the slack never got picked up. - Miraglyth 01:22, 15 December 2007 (CST)
    • I picked up where you left off; only, I haven't been making the tables like you used to that show where to go to get to each mission. (The only thing I haven't added is yesterday's update, which I'm going to get to soon.) Of course, now with individual mission articles linked to in the updates, these tell you exactly where to go. But, I suppose for the sake of the lazy people who don't want to click an extra link, I can use the table format in my next update. - EspioKaos 09:43, 15 December 2007 (CST)
      • Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like nobody had updated the page because that's clearly not the case :P - I'd just meant that the quick-find "Where to go" wasn't being done anymore. But like you say, it shouldn't be much of an issue, especially once navigation with missions becomes simpler. - Miraglyth 15:46, 15 December 2007 (CST)
        • It's no problem.  :) Actually, this brings up something that you've mentioned many times before: an overhaul of the updates section. It's gotten huge (like Xbox). I'd like to go back over each update and redo everything to pretty things up some. I was thinking we could either make a page for each content update (Update_002, Update_034, etc.) or sort them out by months. Of course, we'd still keep everything cataloged on one page; perhaps sorted by months there. Ah, just some ideas to toss about for a later project. - EspioKaos 17:15, 15 December 2007 (CST)
          • That's a decent idea, provided it had a navigation table template to go with it. Maybe a "to be released" list or a list of japanese updates also? --JubeiSaotome 02:28, 16 December 2007 (CST)
            • JP updates would require much digging through their official site's now-messy log of updates, maintenances, events and notices. That said, a long-overdue re-standardisation of our updates page would be much desired. As for splitting the article... by month would be my preferred of the suggestion because per update results in many small articles. Perhaps take it a step further and split them by quarter? - Miraglyth 08:37, 22 December 2007 (CST)
• With a new sidebar navigation list in place, would it be out of place to have more social data on the front page? Like new missions OR most populated lobbies? --JubeiSaotome 21:43, 25 December 2007 (CST)
  • I like the idea. I think it'd be nice to have a little more detailed info directly on the front page stating what new missions have just been released or what special events are going on or will be happening in the near future. More than what we've got with the news box thinger, at least. - EspioKaos 22:21, 25 December 2007 (CST)
• Might as well post a few suggestions here for the sake of putting them into this discussion. Here are some front page and navigation ideas I came up with and here's a new front page layout by Propagandist. - EspioKaos 19:00, 26 December 2007 (CST)
  
• So, I finally found something good for a logo. The image could use a little touching up still, but I don't have time at the moment. Leave feedback/complaints here. Oh, and 5 points to whoever can tell me where I got that design. --Qwerty 23:23, 8 January 2008 (CST)
  • I'll guess Episode 3, since it's the game I never played and I don't recognize the logo at all! Or is it some evil community-harming reference I don't get? D: --Beatrixkiddo 00:51, 9 January 2008 (CST)
    • No points for you. I never played PSO Ep. 3 either; this is from PSU. But really, looks good? Terrible? Horrendous? Spectacular? Shitacular? --Qwerty 00:53, 9 January 2008 (CST)
      • Tell me what it's from and I'll tell you what I think :D --Beatrixkiddo 01:01, 9 January 2008 (CST)
        • It's from PSU. Now tell me how shitty it is. --Qwerty 01:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)
          • Only think I dislike is it's a little pixelly, but I'm sure that's due to the source image and nothing you could have avoided. --Beatrixkiddo 01:24, 9 January 2008 (CST)
            • I was wondering what logo you guys were on about, as I saw nothing uploaded or linked or anything. Then, all sudden-like, it appeared in the upper-left corner after hitting refresh about 10 times. XD It's from the GUARDIANS Colony Linear Line. It's seen on the signs that says "GUARDIANS Line" or something. Personally, I love it. I don't know if we really need the exclamation point in the title, though. ;) - EspioKaos 06:18, 9 January 2008 (CST)
              • Espio wins the points. --Qwerty 08:24, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Backpacker girl??!

Backpacker girl is lost.

Spoiler hide / unhide plugin

Are there any MediaWiki plugins for hiding and unhiding information with a button or switch? This would be useful for character and story related pages. This way we could have spoilers and they could only be revealed if the reader wanted it spoiled or if they already knew what happened. --JubeiSaotome 21:43, 25 December 2007 (CST)

• The one time I've needed to hide a spoiler (which wasn't really, but doesn't hurt to play it safe with this many whiners about) I've used <font color="white"> to hide the relevant text. It wouldn't be a plugin or clickable element, but if there was any significant need for regular spoiler hiding, a simple quick solution would be to use {{Spoiler}} and {{EndSpoiler}} templates to repeat the above, the latter of course being </font>. - Miraglyth 08:29, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Video embeds

Wow, this is coming off as IDEA after IDEA. But Video could be pretty useful, especially on pages such as; Individual Photon Arts pages, Rare monster sightings, Guides and other pages with demonstrations. All you'd need is to allow for the embed tag for video or whatever. Anyway, thought I'd throw the idea out there. --JubeiSaotome 22:25, 28 December 2007 (CST)

• I'm almost completely certain that the wiki system doesn't allow for such tags to function, lest they be used maliciously by unscrupulous editors. But, I may be wrong. --Qwerty 23:23, 8 January 2008 (CST)
• There's no way to embed video in a wiki at this time. I just finished running around the mediawiki main site, and they're trying to figure out how to make it work. Only suggestion I can offer is linking a youtube video in the relevant articles for now.
  --Kit 10:33, 19 January 2008 (CST)

Drop Templates

I keep seeing drop templates being given numbers (the latest I saw being Template:Dark Falz 90). Why do we include numbers? Why can't we just call it the monster name and add a parameter to it specifying levels? ie the Template:Dark Falz page I made. Simply use {{Dark Falz | lvl=90 }} to get the same result as {{Dark Falz 90}}.

Or...is there a reason that I completely missed? So many extra pages (and database entries) being made that can minimized into single pages..
--Kit 17:46, 18 February 2008 (CST)

• I think Espio just likes doing extra work, makes him look important and keeps him from being bored at his job doing... whatever he does.
  
  Just kidding. Probably.
  
  On a more serious note, I think it's time to start actually archiving some of these discussions here. It took me almost a full minute to scroll all the way down the page to where this comment resides. -Sekani 18:30, 18 February 2008 (CST)
• Primarily, I think no one ever thought of it. To be honest though, I find that rather confusing, but I can see its worth. Oh, and Sekani, I agree. The problem is that the topics aren't ordered by date. New topics are supposed to go at the top, but that only seems to happen half the time. --Qwerty 18:38, 18 February 2008 (CST)
• Curses! You've got me, Sekani. XD

Seriously, though, a template like that is a very good idea, but considering how incredibly deep into use the current templates are, we'd be looking at creating a ridiculous amount of extra work for ourselves just to create the new templates and change all of the existing uses in articles and drop charts and what-not to the new style. Time like that would likely be best spent on more important matters around here. ;) - EspioKaos 19:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)