View source for The re-PSUPedia:Raffon Field Base

Welcome to ''Raffon Field Base'', the page where you can discuss and ask questions about PSUPedia!

* This page is for general discussion about the PSUPedia.
** Unlike the actual Raffon Field Base, it's not for chit-chat, trading or anything else that has nothing to do with PSUPedia, or its contents.
** If you have a question about a specific article, it's better to make a comment on that article's talk page, rather than posting it here.
** Things that can go here: general suggestions about the 'Pedia, content that needs to be added, errors and bugs, etc.
* When raising a new topic of discussion, please use a header (=== Your Discussion Title Here ===) and place it at the top of the 'Current Discussions' section.
* Finally, when making a comment, sign it by using 4 tildes (~), this will add your username and the time and date of your comment. In addition, if responding to a comment, please use the summary box on the edit page to let others know what you have responded to.

Enjoy! - ''the PSUPedia Staff.''

To help save space and make browsing this page easier, older discussions will be archived [[Raffon Field Base archive|here]].

== To-do list ==
For a list of in-progress and soon-to-be-started projects at the PSUPedia, please see the following article.
* [[The_PSUPedia:To-do_list|To-do list]]

==Current Discussions==

=== Neutral synth rates===
As far as I'm aware, none of the armor or weapon pages and templates show or account for the success rates when making them with no element. Since going green is apparently becoming more popular with the playerbase, especially with armor, seemed like something to bring up. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 16:59, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
* Far as I'm concerned, only an idiot would make something neutral, especially an armor. Anyway, there's no space in the tables really, so I think we can just leave it up to people to figure out on their own. It's higher than the listed numbers, we'll just leave it at that. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 17:06, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
** Only an idiot would waste time synthing a two-star saber, but we've got stuff on that too. Just saying. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 17:18, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
*** Touche (I'M TOO LAZY TO FIND THE PROPERLY ACCENTED E OK GOD). But yeah, there's just not room for it in the template, and it would only confuse people further. Least that's my opinion. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 17:19, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
**** Do non-elemental weapons have a standard synth rate bonus over elementals, or does it vary from weapon to weapon? If it varies between weapon type, it might be worth adding a footnote, e.g. 'All sabers gain a 5% synth rate boost when plain photons are used instead of elemental photons'. I feel this stuff is worth having in, but especially for armours -  while some of you feel that neutral armours are an idiot's game, a lot of us can't afford a set of elementals and especially with the appearance of Paradis Cataract, CASTs wanting an S-rank are going to increasingly look towards making themselves a neutral armour what with the rising price of S-rank armour with an extra slot. [[User:Strawdonkey|Strawdonkey]] 09:14, 14 May 2008 (CDT)

=== Crea+ weapons ===
* The wiki has real trouble with articles with a + in them, as we've seen with [[User:Aurly|someone here]]. It tends to just remove them, so Creasabra+ will be [[Creasabra]]. I suppose when the time comes to make articles about them we'll just have to rename them to something like [[Creasabra (plus)]] and put a note in the article saying something like 'Due to the technical limitations of the wiki, this item's name cannot be displayed properly. It is supposed to be ''Creasabra+''.' - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 14:20, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
** Well, it clearly [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C++ can be done], it's just a matter of figuring out how. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 14:26, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
** The only way I can get it to work is [http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Creasabra%2B this way]. Everything else just seems to remove it and act as though it's the Creasabra article. - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 14:58, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
*** I see. This must be what MediaWiki help meant when they said that using a root.com/articletitle URL format is not recommended due to certain conflicts. We may need to change everything over to the root.com/index.php?title=articletitle format (or root.com/wiki/articletitle, maybe). However, that probably involves messing with the code on levels that I am not at all comfortable with until other options have been ruled out. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 15:03, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
**** Well, depends on how ready you are to deal with more "OMG WUT HAPIND 2 PSU PEE DIAD?" stuff. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 15:15, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
***** That would be quite a mess.  I say we just go with [[Creasabra Plus]] or [[Crea Wand Plus]] until we can get Creasabra+, etc. to work properly.  Then we could just redirect the Plus articles to the + articles. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 15:46, 10 April 2008 (CDT)

* On a slightly different note, Wormania, why did you change the Creasabra+ page to a redirect to Creasabra (plus)? It won't do anything because the problem is not so much with the article, but the URL. No matter the content of the Creasabra+ page, unless you do it as I stated above the URL changes to Creasabra and you go to that article. Unless you're doing something I'm missing, in which case I'd like you to explain it. - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 15:47, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
** Just testing, needed to see in which order the + was processed in the grand scheme of things. Also my second test didn't work, apparently you cannot redirect to "outside" pages.<br>As I'm sure everyone else has been using, http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Creasabra%2B is the page which it will accept, however the [[Creasabra+]] directs to /Creasabra+.<br>As it stands, I see two possible options. You could use [http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Creasabra%2B Creasabra+], which is slightly messy, but does the job, or you can do the whole root directory swap, which I can see being messy. This is all ofcourse assuming there's nothing we've missed so far. -- [[User:Wormania|Wormania]]
* Aha, holy shit, that was so stupidly obvious that it actually worked. For the sake of simplicity, let's just do it this way for now: make [[Creasabra plus]] with the content of <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Creasabra+]]</nowiki>, and it actually will redirect to the correct page. For linking to it, we can just use <nowiki>[[Creasabra plus | Creasabra+]]</nowiki> (yields [[Creasabra plus | Creasabra+]]). --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 16:10, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
** Ah, excellent, that should be a decent way of getting round it then. - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 16:28, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
** And when you click the article tab, it sends you to the regular Creasabra :< --[[User:Beatrixkiddo|Beatrixkiddo]] 17:32, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
*** Solution: don't click the article tab. This clearly isn't the perfect solution, but it's clearly about as close as we can get without majorly changing URLs and shit. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 17:36, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
* Don't know if this is still being considered, but I'm 99% sure that a URL change won't affect any internal links. Only links to articles here from other sites like PSOW or the official forums would be affected. Also, the main page URL can stay the same. The process should only involve changing the URL prefix in a configuration file somewhere, not too complicated. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 12:03, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
** Not really up to me, but I guess it's at least worth a shot.  If we don't like the results, we can just change it back. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:00, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
** According to [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL#Other_how-to_mini-guides this], I think  either MediaWiki is installed into the root folder (which is a bad thing, apparently), or whoever set up the wiki software redirected links to the "short" version, which is just .info/Article_Name. So, I think we need some intervention from Hitmonchan either way. --[[User:Beatrixkiddo|Beatrixkiddo]] 01:32, 12 April 2008 (CDT)

=== [Edit] Text too large ===
I think the [edit] text / link on all pages is in the wrong position, and far too large. It makes the page look messy and untidy. Compare this page http://psupedia.info/Events to this page on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast the [Edit] text is on the far right, out of view of readers, and smaller in font size so it's non obtrusive, i've set up a wiki before and this is usually default, I don't know the history of this wiki or why you've changed this, but I just had to say something and I think it looks terrible / you should fix it.. --[[User:Battlestar|Battlestar]]
* Strange that someone with so much wiki experience doesn't know how to sign their comments.<br/>That aside, I agree with you that the text does look more intrusive than it should. I'm not aware at the moment of any quick fix for it though. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 09:50, 20 April 2008 (CDT)
** Setting up a wiki doesn't automagically imbue the person with the knowledge on how to sign their comments. Thanks for the troll, but anyway, trolls aside, it says below ([[User:Battlestar|Battlestar]] 10:03, 20 April 2008 (CDT)) I guess I just forgot, huh?
*** I think it's because we're using a different version of MediaWiki than WikiPedia is. It may not look great, but this isn't a big concern for us at the moment. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 10:42, 20 April 2008 (CDT)

=== Enemy spawn chart section overhaul ===
I see, I see.  [[User:EspioKaos/Sandbox/Enemy_spawn_charts|An overhaul]] has arrived for you! [/Tom Nook]  The recent going-over of the spawn charts article made me get kind of back into wanting to finish up the conversion of the unconverted charts while getting a new style for the article set up.  Basically, the new layout will give details on how to read the charts, what the notation means and then a list of missions (each link leading directly to the mission's spawn chart).  With the "how to" section, I can't help but feel like I'm missing something, though.  It might just be me, but if anyone notices something obvious that I omitted, please feel free to fill in the blanks.  Otherwise, any suggestions? - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:26, 2 April 2008 (CDT)
* Suggestions: Order rare monsters list alphabetically. The mission list could be made pretty [[Missions|like here]] maybe? Could be updated automatically if this pretty stuff was in some sort of template too. Looks good. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 13:40, 2 April 2008 (CDT)
** Alphabetized.  :D  Oh, just realized I forgot a few rare enemies. o:  lol brb - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:55, 2 April 2008 (CDT)

=== April Fool's Day articles ===
Bravo on the April Fool's articles.  I've gotten a good chortle out of the reactions from them!  But, how long should we let this go on?  I was planning on adding the backpacker girl April Fool's joke template thing to them later tonight, but I'm wondering if we might ought to do it earlier?  A lot of people are acting pretty stupid over the whole thing, and the number of people who outright believe it baffles me.  So, early intervention or let it go a little longer? - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:37, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
* Let it go till tonight, then we can move them all to [[The_PSUPedia: April Fools]] (or something). If we have time, a [[B.O.R.D. Revolution]] article would be good too. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 13:45, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
** That'll work.  I won't be home until pretty late tonight, so I can take care of it then if no one else has.  If I get a chance (probably tomorrow at the earliest) I might see about getting a B.O.R.D. Revoltuion thing up, too.  I was fairly amused by that when I saw it at Shougai yesterday. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 15:17, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

=== User pages edit protection ===
* What about [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UserPageEditProtection this]? [[User:Essen|Essen]] 17:28, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
** Great idea.  If I knew how, I'd go ahead and set it up, but my wiki experience goes about as far as page coding. >_> - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 17:35, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
*** Say the word.... - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 18:28, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
**** The word. ;)  Be my guest if you can get this one going. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 19:23, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
***** Too late, I already did it. I'm going to hold off on BreadCrumbs until I have more time to understand exactly how it works. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 20:07, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

=== TP or Tech. ? ===
* In game it says "Tech.", on psupedia you've used TP (while using the correctly Att. and Acc. for other weapons). Can I fix that? [[User:Essen|Essen]] 13:15, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
** Ah, for the [[Rods|rods]] chart?  Yeah, that should be "Tech." Any others you've noticed like that? - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:20, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
*** About all the weapons page actually. Some are not converted to templates tho, so can convert at the same time. Needs mass edits and conversions. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 13:36, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
****  Done the ones using templates. Still have to do:
**** Rod, Ulrod, Rayharod, Pumpkinhead, Slyrod, Hajirod, Tomoirod, Rodoc, Granarod, Mayrod, Granadoroc, Howrod, Halarod, Gaozoran Rod, Kazarod, Psycho Wand
**** C rank wands, B rank wands, Cometara, Lidra, Majimra, Magical Wand, Uransara, Tesbra
**** I suggest to do that while converting to templates, but if someone wanna do it without waiting, be my guest. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 13:58, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
** Already left you a note on your talk page, but just to reiterate: TP, please. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 16:00, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
*** Aha, this seems like a better place to discuss it than that talk page. To summarise what's on there: Weapon and [[Line shields|line shield]] summary articles have long used the game's notation, hence the conflict. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 20:42, 29 March 2008 (CDT)
**** So, what is the official decision about this? I'm for using the in-game notation if you need my opinion. Also it should be added to the manual of style. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 16:00, 14 April 2008 (CDT)

===Minor Note Involving Spawn Charts===
* I've come across a lot of rare monster charts that have had different definitions of "spawn," in that some say "third spawn" when they mean practically the third room, and some mean it in the sense that it's the third group of monsters. Would it be possible to set a standard, and define it on the "Enemy Spawn Charts" page? [[User:Adryk|Addark]] 06:50, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
** It means a "group of monster", which may or may not appear all at the same time, but will appear in the same room and if they don't appear at the same time, will appear because of the death of some monster in the group. If a group of monsters appear after you have cleared a room, it's not the same spawn, even if they appear in the same room (for example there's 3 spawns in lab recovery b3). Agree with putting a good definition somewhere tho. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 06:57, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
** Thanks for clearing it up, although I'm not entirely sure if all of the charts follow that standard. Sometimes "third spawn" is.. really confusing. I'll be running through a few of them in the meantime, though. Thanks for clarifying. :) [[User:Adryk|Addark]] 13:19, 28 March 2008 (CDT)
*** It's supposed to mean enemy spawn. If in one room you take out one group of enemies entirely and then another one shows up in the same room, that is a second spawn. There is (or was?) a notation guide for these spawn charts but I'm not sure if it defines "a spawn" or not. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 20:44, 29 March 2008 (CDT)

=== Reviving WhosOnline ===
* Sorry, I was just trying to get the WhosOnline extension to work again, after [[User:Tycho|I]] and consequently [[User:Mono|Mono]] started making proper user pages recently. I kinda want it back since the first time around it caused a wave of people spontaneously starting to make user pages because the wiki had suddenly become less anonymous. I wasn't able to get it to work though, since apparently compatibility with this MediaWiki version sucks. I failed when trying [http://www.chekmate.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:MW:_Whos_Online_Extension#Who.27s_Online.2C_Mediawiki_1.9.x_not_working_.28Fixed.29 this], and step 1 from [http://booleandreams.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/mediawiki-extension-whosonline/ this guide] is just beyond me. If there are any other staff members courageous enough to give this a try, please give it a shot. >_<; - [[User:Tycho|Tycho]] 05:15, 19 March 2008 (CDT)
** Psh, piece of cake. If I had FTP access I could get this working in a few minutes. Unfortunately, I'm not on staff, so... I guess I could try walking someone else through it. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 11:10, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
** I'm making a note here, HUGE SUCCESS - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 13:08, 25 March 2008 (CDT)

<pre>'''Users online:''' <whosonline></whosonline></pre>

'''Users online:''' <whosonline></whosonline>

* A shame it's not uh...working? It shows me as online if I view the recent changes "difference" you just made, but not if I just view the page. And it doesn't display guests at all. >_> Oh and the only person with FTP access is Tycho and Qwerty, in case you wanted to know. --[[User:Beatrixkiddo|Beatrixkiddo]] 13:12, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
** Works for me? Bleh, the instructions Tycho linked me to were fail, so I had to improvise a bit. Try adding the code to a different page and see what happens. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 13:25, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
*** Seems to be working fine for me, too, both here and on the front page.  Though it's curious that no "guests" show up.  I've got to get back to work, but I think I might play around with its placement on the front page later if I have time.  (I'd like to go on an update the "latest missions" section with Friday's stuff, anyway.) - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:44, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
*** It isn't working for me either. Depending on how I view the main page (either just looking at it or looking at the most recent change), I get a completely different list. Just viewing the page, I don't even show up. Anyway, Mewn and Miraglyth both also have FTP access, just for the record. I can give the details out to Espio and Bea through various private messaging routes, if they so desire. On a related note, that color scheme for the box looks absolutely horrid, and I'm not too fond of its placement on the page. I will probably mess with it here shortly. But yeah, it doesn't appear to be functioning properly. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 15:18, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
**** OK, it would appear that the online list only updates once an action is taken, such as logging in or making an edit, and even then apparently on a page-by-page basis. Also, a user remains active on the list for an hour. The time length I can change no problem, but I'm not sure if it's possible or if it even was intended to keep track of people just browsing the site. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 22:40, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
***** Hrm... there's got to be something that can be done to make it display guests and registered users in real time as opposed to edit-by-edit.  I assume you've checked these, but I'll throw them out there anyway, just in case.  [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Whos_online MediaWiki Who's online extension article], [http://www.chekmate.org/wiki/index.php/MW:_Whos_Online_Extension Original extension at Check Mate]. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:42, 26 March 2008 (CDT)
****** Upon further research there may be a glitch related to this wiki's version number that's causing some issues. I'm going to reinstall the extension and see if anything improves. If any of you have added this extension to any other pages you may want to remove it to prevent any nasty errors. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 13:52, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
**** As far as I'm aware, my FTP access is limited to a subspace. I doubt these changes require access to the messy innards of this place, but if they did I wouldn't have been able to help. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 08:18, 26 March 2008 (CDT)
* HUGE SUCCESS.  Seems to be working (for the most part) now.  I just added it back to the front page and noticed that the number of registered members changed on me between refreshes.  Guests still don't show up for some reason, though. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 15:40, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
** Scratch that.  Guests suddenly showed up.  So... HUGE SUCCESS. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 15:43, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
* Awesome. thanks for getting that working, Sekani. Is it wrong that I laugh that we have more people viewing the 'Pedia than the entirety of Sega's forums? --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 17:25, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
* Fuck yes, nice job. Sorry the pages I linked didn't provide much help on the subject, but it's about as much as I could find. Seeing the site activity is this decent is a pretty cool compliment. In any case, I'm hoping this'll make things more personal to participants. More people registering and making profiles plz. :> - [[User:Tycho|Tycho]] 07:04, 30 March 2008 (CDT)
==== More Who's Online stuff ====
* Hmmm... is there any way to place this on the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]] page? - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 12:54, 26 April 2008 (CDT)
** I'm sure there's some way, but I don't know how to access that page to make changes.  I like the idea of having this there; but aside from that, there's a small mistake that was pointed out to me on the page.  It says "below are the last 100 changes made in the last '''last''' 7 days."  Last is typed twice for some reason. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 18:31, 26 April 2008 (CDT)
*** Did some digging and found [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Special_pages this little gem.] Basically there's a PHP file that controls the output of that page, and we'll have to ''carefully'' change it. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 17:51, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

=== Offline ===
OK you might have seen me doing some offline work [[User:Essen/Sandbox|in my sandbox]]. I'll explain my thoughts about it here.
* Break offline in "Episode 1" and "Episode 2". There's too much different things to make them the same section. Example: drops are fixed per enemy in ep1, and per level in ep2. Missions are totally differents. Might have some balancing done between the two, etc.
* Offline doesn't need a page per item/weapon/mission/whatever. People will mostly want to know where to get their stuff and how it works, but won't worry about the descriptions much. A page [[User:Essen/Sandbox/Crossbows_(Episode_1)|like this]] is enough, imho. Plus there isn't that much weapons/stuff anyway.
* No need for an offline.psupedia imho. As you can see [[User:Essen/Sandbox|in my sandbox]] there's about 30 pages for ep1, without counting the more generic pages like save marker, photon charger etc, which are most of the time valid for both online and offline. We just need to stick with this slick format and remove all the old pages and clean-up the online page from everything offline-related. Also if we have an offline.psupedia, where do the scripts for episode 2 go? They're about the same for online and offline.
* Add a template to each Ep1 pages indicating that this is info for Episode 1 and that it is offline, on the top of the page. Same with other offline games.
* Once Episode 1 is done we could:
** Add a category to the left menu, "story mode" with links to "Episode 1" and "Episode 2" for example. Can also put a link to [[Phantasy Star Portable]].
** Clean-up all the online pages from offline stuff.
** Deprecate (mark for deletion) all the offline pages available and remove them a while later instead of having tons of redirections about offline. Of course before that they'll become redirections.
** Start Episode 2 (yeah i probably will) using the same structure than for Episode 1
** Also use the same structure for PSP.
** Once that is done (or before) I'll probably proceed to clean-up other stuff on the wiki.
Comments, thoughts, suggestions? [[User:Essen|Essen]] 21:01, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
* Very impressive work, Essen!  It's greatly appreciated since our offline section (as near non-existent as it was) was in bad need of help.  There are a few minor standardization things that should be taken care of (de-capitalization of subsection titles in a few spots is all I've seen), but I love the look.  :D - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 22:34, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
** Yeah I'm trying to stick to the manual of style but might forgot stuff ^^; I'll change that on the next edits and will check a last time before putting it live. Thanks for the comment [[User:Essen|Essen]] 22:48, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

=== Categories? ===
* I've been noticing lately the lack of categories for most pages. For example all the *_(Offline) pages are left alone without category. Same with the scripts, and various others. There is a [http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Special:Categories&limit=500 good bunch of categories] already, but a lot of pages [http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Special:Uncategorizedpages&limit=500&offset=0 still haven't any]. I don't think I have to explain the benefits of doing this: easy navigation to pages with similar contents. Is there recommandations for categorization, and do you mind if I have fun categorizing when I happen to stumble on one of these numerous lost pages? Same sort of question with [http://psupedia.info/Special:Lonelypages orphaned pages]. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 22:00, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
** Go to town if you want :P First of all though, it might help to explain the blurred line that some categories would provide. For example, what separates [[Swords]] from [http://psupedia.info/Category:Swords Category:Swords] when the former should already provide a comprehensive list? - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 22:07, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
*** It's mostly not needed for online items as long as they link back to the [[Swords]]-like page. Unfortunately that's not always the case. It's also possible to process everything with a script if you are using categories. For example, generating a list of drops for all the items by running through the category and its childrens. If you change the template for the items, there's only one change needed to the script. If you change the pretty page, 0 needed. Without category, you need to change the script each time you change any pretty page. (And I might do that for various reasons, not only for psutools but also for making reports on what's missing in psupedia for example.) Anyway right now I was more thinking of that poor [[Units (Offline)]] page that gets linked only from [[Units]]. Meaning if you search for infos about offline, you need to go through online pages first. And if you need something else about offline (like, a weapon), you need to go back through online. Also worth noting that for the scripts, for example, there isn't really a place in the page where you can add a link back to the index (except the bottom, like categories do). Finally, and that's probably the solution to the difference between category and pretty page: you can probably make the category redirect to the pretty page. That way all users will get redirected to the page you want, you'll get links at the bottom automatically, and automated scripts can still parse the categories by adding "&redirect=no" to the URLs. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 23:05, 9 March 2008 (CDT) (and sorry for the lengthy comment lol I wrote as I thought about it)
*** Most of that actually makes sense, heh. On the offline thing though: Once upon a time it was suggested that we try something like offline.psupedia.info to create a distinction between Network Mode and Story/Extra Mode. Nobody really responded to the idea, indicating a general lack of interest in offline modes. If one/some people took an interest to the offline modes then that'd be another idea on top of this, though the offline modes are a confusing mix themselves - Story Mode "v1" is different to Extra Mode "v1" is different to Story Mode AOTI. The latter two of course aren't even available to the 360. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 07:48, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
**** Yep I remember when that suggestion popped up. I'm not really interested in offline, it's just I did ep1 again to remember the story and I needed ep1 informations. What I suggest is to separate Episode 1 and 2 since they don't work the same way for everything (like for drops, shops, etc). This would prevent some confusion if an item is in PSU and not in AoI for example. However I wouldn't advise in separating story from extra (it's only a few SUV different, and story missions not available), and don't think offline.psupedia would be good either, since stuff like NPC or scripts are not only for offline. Pics of items too. Finally, it's pretty easy to find everything in offline mode, and there's no need for editing once it's considered finished. I might try and get the complete list of drops for Ep1, wouldn't take too long since the drops don't depend on the enemy level. And clean up all this in 2 different categories, Ep1 and Ep2. Sounds like fun. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 09:00, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
**** I've made an example of redirection of category on the [http://psupedia.info/Category:Swords Category:Swords] category. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 09:09, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
***** I tried a similar category redirection a while back, for some reason it didn't go over well. Never bothered to ask why. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 12:59, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:BreadCrumbs2 This extension] could make categories much more useful. Also, please comment that old example I made on the sword category. I think the redirection paired with this extension could make for a much better navigation. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 09:39, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
** Originally, I was under the impression that categories should not redirect to an actual article as that seemed to defeat the purpose of a standalone category.  However, I'm seeing now that it really would serve a great purpose, especially with something like this.  I'd love to see how well this would work here, especially if if would make site navigation easier. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 10:07, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
*** [http://www.pooshlmer.com/touhouwiki/index.php/Embodiment_of_Scarlet_Devil:_Gameplay A real life example of the extension] (see at bottom) [[User:Essen|Essen]] 12:45, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
**** Now that looks great!  Clean, easy to read; it'd be perfect for us. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 12:49, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
***** This really does look cool, but apparently it requires a fairly rigid existing structure already in place. Most of the pages that aren't weapons or missions are somewhat unorganized, and I have to wonder how useful this extension would be in that context. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 18:31, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
****** Categorized categories and all of that, right?  I figure if we spend some time getting things put in their proper categories, we can get that extension working very nicely.  When I have more time, I'll look more into it to see just how rigid it needs to be. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 19:41, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
*** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_that_should_be_in_SVG_format Category containing images]: this would allow automatic creation of image galleries by just adding an image to one (or more) category. This might be more or less configurable, I didn't look seriously yet. [[User:Essen|Essen]] 19:04, 14 April 2008 (CDT)

=== Update section overhaul ===
We had a little discussion going on this a few months ago, but it kind of fizzled off.  I'd like to get it going again since, as it's been noted on numerous occasions, our current updates section is getting ginormous.  Jubei put together an example of one way to prettify our updates ([[User:JubeiSaotome/Sandbox/Updates]]) which I'm quite pleased with.  However, one thing we didn't come to a decision on is how to break up individual pages.  Should it be broken up by update, by month, by quarter, or what?  Also, I'm thinking that maybe we don't need to document the exact time the servers go up and down.  The up time changes constantly from what I've seen, and the 00:01:00 the official site gives doesn't seem to be accurate at all.  (Actually, that looks like a default time for pretty much all announcements that go up on the main site, no matter what time it was posted.)  Just stating the day the servers go back up should suffice.  Anyway, let's discuss.  I'd like to make some progress on this project so we can at least get new updates in this format.  We can always save the conversion of older updates for later. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 11:18, 25 February 2008 (CST)
* Suggestion one: sort them by season (e.g. March to May = Spring 2008)<br/>Suggestion two: Newest updates go at the top of the page, not the bottom.<br/>- [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 12:10, 25 February 2008 (CST)
* Sorry for splitting this discussion up between a few different articles.  <_<;  Anyway, I've come up with a little prototype design for something like what I was envisioning for the new updates section.  I haven't made a portal page for it, but you can view two of the sections [[Updates/February_2008|here]] and [[Updates/March_2008|here]].  Each article will contain the updates for its respective month, listed with the newest update the top, oldest at the bottom.  At the very bottom of each article will be that little calendar thing to make navigating the updates section easier.  I'd like to mess around with the calendar colors and stuff some more (I just copy-pasted the code of one of the front page tables to make these) and maybe play with the sizing to make it a tad bit smaller.  But, I'll save that for later.  So, questions, comments? - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 13:27, 12 March 2008 (CDT)
* Agreed with all of the above, with the exception of the removal of update times. Things like 5-hour maintenances for large updates serve a limited amount of historic value, but more importantly, just using "the date" doesn't tell people much. The servers are PST and start maintenance one hour before midnight, so for everyone east of that (which is pretty much everyone, I'm sure) it would be one day out. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 05:14, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
** The down time is static.  I think it's always been 11:00p.m. PST, so we don't need that with each update.  A note on the main updates page stating that maintenance occurs each Friday starting at that time should suffice.  If we decide to include the time when the servers come back online after a maintenance period, we'll need some way of documenting an accurate uptime as the official site does not do this.  Whenever the servers come back up, the announcement on the front page always reads 12:01a.m., even if it's much later in the morning.  Heh, even announcements posted mid-afternoon say they were posted one minute after midnight.  XD  Anyway, what I'm getting at is we'd need someone to stay on top of keeping accurate track of maintenance downtime each update. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 09:43, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
*** ''"we'll need some way of documenting an accurate uptime as the official site does not do this"'' - I did this back when I worked from home, but it's been nearly a year since I stopped :P board "SERVER IS UP" threads don't help either because you can never tell which is the first that was telling the truth :P either way, the first few months at least have accurate downtime records. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 07:05, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

=== Drop Templates ===
I keep seeing drop templates being given numbers (the latest I saw being [[Template:Dark Falz 90]]). Why do we include numbers? Why can't we just call it the monster name and add a parameter to it specifying levels? ie the [[Template:Dark Falz]] page I made. Simply use <nowiki>{{Dark Falz | lvl=90 }}</nowiki> to get the same result as <nowiki>{{Dark Falz 90}}</nowiki>.<br/><br/>Or...is there a reason that I completely missed? So many extra pages (and database entries) being made that can minimized into single pages..<br/>--[[User:Kietrinia|Kit]] 17:46, 18 February 2008 (CST)
* I think Espio just likes doing extra work, makes him look important and keeps him from being bored at his job doing... whatever he does.<br/><br/>Just kidding. Probably.<br/><br/>On a more serious note, I think it's time to start actually archiving some of these discussions here. It took me almost a full minute to scroll all the way down the page to where this comment resides. -[[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (CST)
* Primarily, I think no one ever thought of it. To be honest though, I find that rather confusing, but I can see its worth. Oh, and Sekani, I agree. The problem is that the topics aren't ordered by date. New topics are supposed to go at the top, but that only seems to happen half the time. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 18:38, 18 February 2008 (CST)
* Curses!  You've got me, Sekani.  XD
Seriously, though, a template like that is a very good idea, but considering how incredibly deep into use the current templates are, we'd be looking at creating a ridiculous amount of extra work for ourselves just to create the new templates and change all of the existing uses in articles and drop charts and what-not to the new style.  Time like that would likely be best spent on more important matters around here. ;) - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 19:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)
* Well, let's just start using new kinds of templates from now on. Phasing out the old one can just be done like, one monster a day or something. It would be slow, but it'd get done eventually. :)<br/>--[[User:Kietrinia|Kit]] 09:15, 19 February 2008 (CST)
** I'll be completely honest with you:  I'd prefer we not.  I appreciate the idea, but I'd much rather we stick with the current, established templates than have multiple styles about the site that mean extra clean up later.  Again, the time that would be spent creating and implementing the new templates could be put to much better use with the numerous other projects about the site.  Please don't take this the wrong way.  I'm not trying to be an ass, just trying to avoid extra work for everyone.  XD - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 09:47, 19 February 2008 (CST)

=== Audio Files ===
Files with the extension MP3 or OGG cannot be uploaded; why is this? All of the currently available samples in the [[Jukebox discs]] section are really awful because of their encoding and there's no way to reasonably change them. [[User:DOS|DOS]] 10:20, 29 February 2008 (CST)
* I haven't enabled those file types yet. I may do so soon, if we decide to install an in-wiki audio-player extension. However, we do not intend to host the entire file for the jukebox disks, but rather only a low quality preview so that you know what you're getting before you buy the disc. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 17:18, 29 February 2008 (CST)
** Yes, I understand that these are meant to be samples but the ones that are currently available are poorly encoded. Also I don't understand why you would want an in-wiki media player when users can download the files and listen in their player of choice? [[User:DOS|DOS]] 21:50, 29 February 2008 (CST)
*** The "poor encoding" was intentional. The samples do what they were intended to do ("What does Disc 77 sound like?") while not running up unnecessary bandwidth bills. I honestly see nothing to be gained from using a high-bitrate sample. We're not here to cater to audiophiles or people looking for free music. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 22:50, 29 February 2008 (CST)
**** Maybe try encoding at 64Kbps? At least something that doesn't make listening to these files totally unpleasant. 32Kbps is way too low. I don't think this is an unreasonable increase; I wasn't planning on asking for lossless clips or anything. [[User:DOS|DOS]] 09:57, 1 March 2008 (CST)
***** They sound fine to me. --[[User:Beatrixkiddo|Beatrixkiddo]] 10:01, 1 March 2008 (CST)
***** 32Kbps hurts to listen to..to me at least. :( --[[User:Kietrinia|Kit]] 10:07, 1 March 2008 (CST)
****** Try turning the volume down then. Your ears will thank you. All jokes aside, the orchestrated clips in particular actually are pretty bad, so I'll try uploading them in a different format this weekend. WMA is the only other near-universal format I can think of, and it should provide some improvement in quality. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 12:00, 6 March 2008 (CST)
****** Just so you know I haven't forgotten about this. Been busy with actual work lately (had to recode an entire website almost from scratch), not to mention Audacity doesn't like exporting to WMA. Windows Media Encoder does the job, but the samples cut off abruptly instead of the short fadeout the current clips have. Still looking for a solution, suggestions welcome. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 11:14, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
******* Wanted to throw my 2p in here - I'd steer clear of WMA as it's not exactly a universal format, not least due to the fact it stands for 'Windows Media Audio'! I'd stick with MP3, 64kbps is plenty for this purpose and still results in small files - about 500k/minute, almost any media player can play it and you're not stuck with users who may have to download additional software to listen to the files. I'm just thinking from a usability point of view more than anything else. [[User:Strawdonkey|Strawdonkey]] 08:58, 14 May 2008 (CDT)
******* Quick addendum - I've just gone looking for said audio files, all I can find is WMA and one 128k MP3. Clicking the links to WMA files opens Winamp (my default music player) for me, which then fails to play the file. This is one of the usability reasons I mentioned - all of a sudden, to listen to this file becomes too much faff. [[User:Strawdonkey|Strawdonkey]] 09:06, 14 May 2008 (CDT)
******** Someone else had [[Talk:Jukebox discs#New Topic|the same issue]] a while back, and the problem actually lies with Winamp. Set Windows Media Player or Quicktime as your default handler for WMA files. If you're not willing to do that, just save the files to your hard drive before playing them. Unfortunately the wiki doesn't support the complex code needed for forced streaming. As far as compatibility goes, let's just say that I have ''never'' seen a system that was incapable of playing WMA files right out of the box. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 13:00, 14 May 2008 (CDT)

===XBOX Gamertag embeds===
The Microsoft XBOX site allows you to add your Gamertag Card to anything that accepts the code... I haven't figured it out how to get it to display on the PSUPedia pages (probably a coding issue) but anywhere else its something groovy to show off, and a nice easy link to see how the online gamer is acutally doing.
Just a thought.

Wolfmist
* Judging by your edit history, it appears to use some non-standard HTML tags. Unfortunately, a wiki only accepts tags for simple things such as bold, italics, etc. The best thing you'll be able to do is throw up a simple link. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 13:15, 2 March 2008 (CST)
** I already tried this a while ago when I first started messing around here. No dice. I don't think wikis are designed to accept dynamic content like Gamertag info. - [[User:Sekani|Sekani]] 11:39, 6 March 2008 (CST)
***Yeah, thought as much. Thanks for the info though, I'll remember to keep stuff simple on here, lol. - [[User:Wolfmist|Wolfmist]] 06:39, 13 March 2008 (GMT)

===Giresta Article===
I tried to submit information about this Photon Art - why do people keep deleting/changing it?
Check the article's history, stuff I said was true, that Giresta does everything that Resta does, that the spell significantly transforms at around Level 15 (and I did say that I hadn't confirmed that fact) and a few other things. I suppose a few editorial comments wouldn't go amiss for every article edit, would it? Learn from mistakes and all that?

- Wolfmist
* Comments like yours don't belong in a proper article, especially since the information was erroneous (as with all techs, the only changes take place every 10 levels). Additionally, we have a standard format for articles such as [[Giresta]], and we would like to stick to it for all such articles. Finally, never sign an edit to an article, only for talk pages. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 18:15, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
** Comments like mine? Erroneous Information? Look, Qwerty, I send information with the best intentions. And when I know I've made a statement which doesn't ring true, I add that I haven't confirmed what I said, and fine, I may not be great at spelling or grammar, so fine edit those but please don't be insulting about it! If you have to be blunt then fine, but have you ever heard of taking your staff around a corner to talk rather than shouting out mistakes for all to hear? Jeeze, Lighten up! Oh, and besides, that particular article would never have recieved data if I hadn't brought attention to it. Same with a lot of other articles, actually, which could be interesting to read. Have you ever seen intriguing things happen in the game that have no explanations yet? I have, and I actually like to make the effort of attempting things myself if nothing's been done by anyone else... there I've had my beef and now I need a cookie, lol. --[[User:Wolfmist|Wolfmist]] 11:38, 19 March 2008 (GMT)
*** I removed the comments in question because, for reasons Qwerty stated(I don't think it was all too rude how he put it either). And for reasons that PSUP is supposed to be as unbiased as possible, and to say something like "Designed to replace Resta" is simply biased  - Resta has the major plus of better range and quicker casting time, so it is simply an opinion and I felt had little place in the article. You put your things in better words after my edit, and Espio formatted it correctly, but the huge problem even without the opinionated remarks is the information that has no evidence for such as it "improving at 15" and "getting better range all the time". - [[User:Saiffy|Saiffy]] 22:09, 19 March 2008 (CDT)
*** On another note, "''And when I know I've made a statement which doesn't ring true, I add that I haven't confirmed what I said''" is not advised practise. The intent of this resource is to provide facts alone, leaving what is essentially speculation to the discussion pages. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 08:26, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

===New Expansion Release?===
There are rumors floating around that a new version (like AOTI) will soon be released... What whispers have you lot heard? Spill the beans if its true! - [[User:Wolfmist|Wolfmist]] 03:56, 26 March 2008 (GMT).
* No one has heard anything. For the time being, it's all (meaningless and silly) speculation. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 23:29, 25 March 2008 (CDT)
* These rumours are, if anything, probably based on the upcoming PSP game [[Phantasy Star Portable]]. - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 09:38, 26 March 2008 (CDT)