The re-PSUPedia:Manual of style archive - Revision history

S-T-H: Manual of style archive moved to The PSUPedia:Manual of style archive: seems appropriate

2009-05-05T02:55:01Z

Manual of style archive moved to The PSUPedia:Manual of style archive: seems appropriate

S-T-H: moving over some old new templates discussion

2009-05-05T02:50:14Z

moving over some old new templates discussion

Show changes

EspioKaos at 18:43, 16 February 2009

2009-02-16T18:43:37Z

S-T-H: might as well

2008-08-27T19:58:51Z

might as well

S-T-H: helping this along - Template:PSU-version has only one more 'What links here'

2008-08-27T19:44:34Z

helping this along - Template:PSU-version has only one more 'What links here'

S-T-H: /* Closed polls */ Stat abbreviations poll closed

2008-06-30T09:43:58Z

‎Closed polls: Stat abbreviations poll closed

EspioKaos: Massive archiving of old discussions, mostly from last year.

2008-04-16T14:23:46Z

Massive archiving of old discussions, mostly from last year.

Show changes

EspioKaos: /* Closed polls */ Archiving a few things.

2008-04-16T14:19:02Z

‎Closed polls: Archiving a few things.

EspioKaos at 16:32, 8 September 2007

2007-09-08T16:32:38Z

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EspioKaos at 02:22, 18 August 2007

2007-08-18T02:22:15Z

@@ Line 473: / Line 473: @@
 ****I'll see if I can mess around with the tables some to add a column for ''AotI''-exclusive items.  Same for the individual item templates.  On that, I'm trying to come up with some ideas for templates on other non-weapon stuff like traps, materials and consumables.  I'll try to get some things done on that as soon as possible.  [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 21:59, 7 August 2007 (BST)
 ****OK, [http://psupedia.info/User_talk:EspioKaos#Weapon_template_test here we go].  I quickly added in a column before the comments section to display which version of the game an item is from.  As I state in my notes there, I think the italics look a little silly, but I don't want to make a double-standard since game titles are supposed to be italicized anyway.  Perhaps we could use a small icon similar to the manufacturer icons?  [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 00:41, 8 August 2007 (BST)
-**** For tables, I suggest we do use something like a very pale yellow as Saiffy suggested, or put in the extra column as Espio did. Alternatively, we could use a very small icon to denote AotI-only things in tables and lists. For articles addressing a bunch of AotI-only content, I suggest we just use something like below. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 06:16, 8 August 2007 (BST) {{AotI Only}}
+**** For tables, I suggest we do use something like a very pale yellow as Saiffy suggested, or put in the extra column as Espio did. Alternatively, we could use a very small icon to denote AotI-only things in tables and lists. For articles addressing a bunch of AotI-only content, I suggest we just use something like below. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 06:16, 8 August 2007 (BST) {{AOTI only}}
 **** Me again. [[User:Qwerty/Sandbox|Here is an example]] of two possible ways to denote an AotI item/quest/whatever in tabular/list form. As noted there, I'm more so fond of the little icon ([[image:aotionly.png]]), as it can be more widely applied. Also, too many varying colors in a table is both hard to remember and confusing to the lay reader. Anyway, comments plx. --[[User:Qwerty|Qwerty]] 06:50, 8 August 2007 (BST)
 **** I prefer the column directly stating PSU or AoI, it'd be good for any future expansions, and the colour has the flaw of not telling us if the item is released or not. - [[User:Mewn|Mewn]] 11:14, 8 August 2007 (BST)

@@ Line 302: / Line 302: @@
 *** How about now? Still unsure on whether to push "first spawn" or "initial spawn" (I know it doesn't really matter, but :/ ) and what to do if two map variations share the same block 1. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 08:01, 23 December 2007 (CST)
 **** Excellent.  And I say go with "initial spawn."  Like you said, it doesn't really matter, but I just think it sounds better.  ;) - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 08:15, 23 December 2007 (CST)
-***** Doubt there'll be further objections, so all that's left is what to do with shared block 1s. As far as I'm concerned, [[Rare monsters#Fight For Food]] is an example of vertical stretching looking horrible. My suggestions would be to do as the example is only with far smaller images, or to simply show just the block 2s (and note that), and link the shared block 1 image in the notes beneath the spawn chart. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 08:42, 23 December 2007 (CST)
+***** Doubt there'll be further objections, so all that's left is what to do with shared block 1s. As far as I'm concerned, [[Rare monsters#Fight for Food]] is an example of vertical stretching looking horrible. My suggestions would be to do as the example is only with far smaller images, or to simply show just the block 2s (and note that), and link the shared block 1 image in the notes beneath the spawn chart. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 08:42, 23 December 2007 (CST)
 * Just did a little testing on Fight for Food's chart with smaller images by reducing the A and B pattern images down to 150px.  It works, but it looks a little funny.  So, I say show block 2 in the chart and make a footnote (with image link) stating that block 1 will look the same between both patterns. - [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 08:52, 23 December 2007 (CST)
 ** Yeah, should be fine. I don't know how to image link without making it considered an external link though, I must admit. - [[User:Miraglyth|Miraglyth]] 10:12, 23 December 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 369: / Line 369: @@
 ==A few things==
 * Not sure exactly if these are supposed to be in this Manual of Style, but a few things for consideration:
-** Any names (of NPCs, items, missions, places, etc.) that have been translated from Japanese due to the lack of an official localization are to be put in parantheses until the official localization is known, at which point the localization takes precedence. An example is [[Fight For Food]], which until the US closed beta shortly before release was known by its Japanese name of (Farm Plant Recovery).
+** Any names (of NPCs, items, missions, places, etc.) that have been translated from Japanese due to the lack of an official localization are to be put in parantheses until the official localization is known, at which point the localization takes precedence. An example is [[Fight for Food]], which until the US closed beta shortly before release was known by its Japanese name of (Farm Plant Recovery).
 ** Item types should be referred to by their proper names if possible, i.e. Line Shields instead of Armor.
 ** To head off any future problems, weapon type names should be made consistent - particularly Cards/Throwing Blades/whatever the flavour of the month name is. I propose we use Cards, as that is how the Perfect Bible and PSU-Wiki refer to them.

@@ Line 422: / Line 422: @@
 |-
 | {{Color-C}} rowspan="3" | 1★
-| [[Sample]] || {{Logo-G}} || 230 || 72 || 42 || 27 || {{PSU-version}} || --
+| [[Sample]] || {{Logo-G}} || 230 || 72 || 42 || 27 || {{PSU version}} || --
 |-
-| [[Samplesou]] || {{Logo-Y}} || 260 || 64 || 38 || 29 || {{PSU-version}} || --
+| [[Samplesou]] || {{Logo-Y}} || 260 || 64 || 38 || 29 || {{PSU version}} || --
 |-
-| [[Shigga Sample]] || {{Logo-T}} || 200 || 76 || 45 || 30 || {{PSU-version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv01~09
+| [[Shigga Sample]] || {{Logo-T}} || 200 || 76 || 45 || 30 || {{PSU version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv01~09
 |-
 ! Rank !! Name !! Maker !! PP !! Att. !! Acc. !! Req. !! Ver. !! Comments
 |-
 | {{Color-B}} | 4★
-| [[Sample Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-G}} || 333 || 302 || 149 || 164 || {{AotI-version}} || --
+| [[Sample Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-G}} || 333 || 302 || 149 || 164 || {{AOTI version}} || --
 |-
 | {{Color-B}} rowspan="2" | 6★
-| [[Sample Mk. 3]] || {{Logo-G}} || 356 || 450 || 212 || 266 || {{PSU-version}} || --
+| [[Sample Mk. 3]] || {{Logo-G}} || 356 || 450 || 212 || 266 || {{PSU version}} || --
 |- {{JP item}}
-| [[Samplesou Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-Y}} || 403 || 402 || 189 || 281 || {{AotI-version}} || --
+| [[Samplesou Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-Y}} || 403 || 402 || 189 || 281 || {{AOTI version}} || --
 |-
 ! Rank !! Name !! Maker !! PP !! Att. !! Acc. !! Req. !! Ver. !! Comments
 |-
 | {{Color-A}} | 7★
-| [[Shigga Sample Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-T}} || 340 || 553 || 253 || 325 || {{PSU-version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv80~99
+| [[Shigga Sample Mk. 2]] || {{Logo-T}} || 340 || 553 || 253 || 325 || {{PSU version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv80~99
 |-
 ! Rank !! Name !! Maker !! PP !! Att. !! Acc. !! Req. !! Ver. !! Comments
 |-
 | {{Color-S}} | 10★
-| [[Shigga Sample Mk. 3]] || {{Logo-T}} || 380 || 732 || 373 || 488 || {{PSU-version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv100+
+| [[Shigga Sample Mk. 3]] || {{Logo-T}} || 380 || 732 || 373 || 488 || {{PSU version}} || Drop: [[Sample Monster]] Lv100+
 |- {{Unreleased item}}
 | {{Color-S}} | 12★
-| [[Shigga Samplec]] || {{Logo-K}} || 300 || 625 || 618 || 617 || {{PSU-version}} || Still unreleased in JP.
+| [[Shigga Samplec]] || {{Logo-K}} || 300 || 625 || 618 || 617 || {{PSU version}} || Still unreleased in JP.
 |}
 Opinions?  [[User:EspioKaos|EspioKaos]] 20:43, 14 August 2007 (BST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:43, 30 June 2008
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	** There's no reason we can't, as can be seen by the recently created enemy profile template. It would be a great time-saver. Personally, I just need to learn how to make the larger templates. XD [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 16:21, 16 September 2007 (BST)		** There's no reason we can't, as can be seen by the recently created enemy profile template. It would be a great time-saver. Personally, I just need to learn how to make the larger templates. XD [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 16:21, 16 September 2007 (BST)
	* With the close of the poll, proposal #2 is the new standard. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 12:14, 18 September 2007 (BST)		* With the close of the poll, proposal #2 is the new standard. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 12:14, 18 September 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	===VOTE: Stat abbreviations===
		+	Which would you prefer that we use for weapon and line shield stats? In-game abbreviations such as ''Tech.'' and ''Acc.'' or the abbreviations used for a character's base stats, ''TP'' and ''ATA''? Voting will be open until Tuesday, April 22, 00:00 CDT. Remember to bold your choice, give your reasoning (if you please) and include your signature.
		+	{\| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
		+	! In-game abbr. !! Base stat abbr.
		+	\|-
		+	\| Att. \|\| ATP
		+	\|-
		+	\| Acc. \|\| ATA
		+	\|-
		+	\| Def. \|\| DFP
		+	\|-
		+	\| Eva. \|\| EVP
		+	\|-
		+	\| Tech. \|\| TP
		+	\|-
		+	\| Ment. \|\| MST
		+	\|}
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' - I feel that since we're trying to be as consistent with the game as possible (though it's sometimes difficult considering the game's inconsistencies), we should use the abbreviations used on weapon, line shield and unit pages in our articles. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 18:00, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''Base stat abbreviations:''' While I agree with the concept of staying true to whatever is in the game, I prefer the base stat abbreviations for a purely pragmatic reason: no one ever uses the in-game abbreviations when talking about anything, so using the stats makes it less confusing. But, I figure I'm in the minority here, and this is really minor so I'll go with it either way. Only real issue will be spending time to update all those pages (maybe that can be done via templates, but many of those confuse me so idk). --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 18:11, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	** The whole template thing is really what's brought this back up. With us working on and hopefully final-finalizing our weapon and line shield templates soon, it'll be easy to do conversions from one style to the other based on the decision we come to here. :) - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 18:17, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''Base stat abbreviations''' - simply less confusing, and while not technically correct still has grounds in the game. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 18:23, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' - The reason why? was this was the first thing that came into my mind when i wrote the idea of the shield line template. Natural instinct i suppose when i talk about equips. But when referring to char stats i would naturally use 'Base Stat abbreviations'. [[User:Natasha Milarose\|Natasha Milarose]] 18:36, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' cause it's more consistent with the game and I'm used to it. I wouldn't mind the base stat either because as Q said it's what is used generally when talking about stats. [[User:Essen\|Essen]] 18:40, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' - Truth be told, I don't agree with the "one or the other" nature of this poll because the game uses ''both'' sets. But the poll's introduction specifically states "weapon and line shield stats", and the game does use Att., Acc. and friends for those so that's clearly what I'd vote for. If and when we make tables about characters, then I would voice my firm support for ATP, ATA and friends then. As for the "what people call it" - I don't think that's relevant to a wiki, really. Nobody really calls luck "photon fortune" in informal discussion either, but they know what it means. What's the difference in this case? - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 03:40, 15 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' - This wiki should show facts, not opinions, so we should use the terms that are actually used in the game itself. [[User:Aurly\|Aurly]] 04:45, 15 April 2008 (CDT)
		+	* '''In-game abbreviations''' - Basically what [[User:Miraglyth\|Mira]] said. - [[User:Sekani\|Sekani]] 18:32, 16 April 2008 (CDT)
		+
		+	* This poll is now closed. In-game abbreviations shall be used for weapon and line shield (and presumably unit) stats. - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 05:08, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:19, 16 April 2008
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	*** True, but people will need to agree on it nontheless, which is proving a time-consuming process! - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 17:25, 17 August 2007 (BST)		*** True, but people will need to agree on it nontheless, which is proving a time-consuming process! - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 17:25, 17 August 2007 (BST)
	Following the vote, the layout of proposal #1 stands. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 15:38, 22 August 2007 (BST)		Following the vote, the layout of proposal #1 stands. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 15:38, 22 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	=== VOTE: Drop templates ===
		+	'''Poll will close February 29 at 12:00a.m. (CST)'''<br/>
		+	[[User:Kietrinia\|Kietrinia]] has devised an alternate method of utilizing enemy and area drop templates. This method consists of one base template which contains all of an enemy or area's special and level drops instead of one template per level tier per enemy/area. (See [[Template:Dark Falz]].) When used in a drop table, we would type the normal template code, in this case <nowiki>{{Dark Falz}}</nowiki>, then insert a vertical pipe after the enemy name followed by the level range or type of drop. So, to display the special drops and then the LV20-29 range for a Delp Slami, we would use <nowiki>{{Delp Slami \| special}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Delp Slami \| 20}}</nowiki>. Before we begin voting, I'd like to give Kit the floor to further explain this just in case I've missed something. Once voting has begun, please answer with ''yes'' or ''no'' (in bold) followed by your reasoning and then your signature. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 11:26, 21 February 2008 (CST)<br/><br/>You pretty much got it all. Instead of having one template for each rank, we'll have one that has all ranks with a variable we can specify. Anyone who's curious about all the neat lil things we can do with parser functions should have a look at the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions Parser Functions page at Meta] to see all the neat toys we have at our disposal and all the automation we can add to our templates. Implementing the new style ''will'' take time, but it'll clean out the space this wiki uses on the database, and will make adding enemy drop lists more intuitive. Isn't automation fun? ^-^<br/>--[[User:Kietrinia\|Kit]] 11:49, 21 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	* <b>No.</b> I see no particular reason to change them, and it would just create extra work in reworking old templates. Furthermore, this automation/parser stuff is way beyond the scope of understanding for myself, most other staff here, and certainly the average user. If we had more people here who were comfortable/experienced with coding and stuff, then it would be fine, but as it is, most people here know very little about it, and I don't think we have any reason to worry about database size. In summary, I think it would be unnecessarily confusing for not only average contributors (discouraging them from adding their input), but also for most of the staff. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 15:37, 21 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	* <b>Yes.</b> I think that making the templates more automated is a good idea but I don't think we have to re-work all of the old templates immediately. Regarding complexity: as far as using the templates, neither method is really more complex than the other. Creating the templates, is certainly more complex but I think if the techniques are well documented it could be fairly easy to create new templates from the existing ones. One last note, personally, I do have programming experience but have been reluctant to make too many changes for fear of stepping on someone's feet. [[User:Propagandist\|Propagandist]] 23:38, 21 February 2008 (CST)
		+	** Yay for programming experience! high fives and/or hugs fellow geek :D --[[User:Kietrinia\|Kit]] 09:37, 22 February 2008 (CST)
		+	* '''No.''' I've been thinking quite a bit on this over the past few days and I finally came to my decision. Even though it's an excellent idea and nice use of parser functions, I'd rather we spend the time the conversion would take on something of a higher priority. However, I have nothing against the use of parsers in future templates. In fact, I recently attempted to play around with them and they don't seem too terribly difficult to use. (I think my first uses didn't work since I only had a default value set without any other options. Of course, where I was using them wasn't ideal since it wasn't for an options type of template, more of a simple yes or no thing.) - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 19:06, 23 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	* '''Yes.''' Having read the comments of Qwerty and Espio I would have to agree that it's not high on the priority list, and that a confusing/difficult code would make this place inaccessible to the regular editor. That said, having seen the template and checking out the Help:ParserFunctions page, the "switch" function seems simple enough to not go into that. I still doubt it's worth a high spot on the priority list, but it's a lot more concise than making and referencing 10+ templates per enemy. - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 05:53, 24 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	* '''Yes.''' The parser functions in this case are a lot simpler than they look, and I can't think of any good reason not to use them, at the very least for future articles. The main obstacle in this case seems to be the work involved in converting the existing templates and the articles that use them, but compared to some of the existing projects (like template conversions for the existing weapon pages, or missing pages in general) this seems like an easy enough endeavor. Just don't make me do it.... - [[User:Sekani\|Sekani]] 14:40, 24 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	* '''Yes.''' I've been told that I'm actually allowed to vote in this, so, I vote yes...but with conditions. Alot of people are worried about the amount of time it'd take to convert the old templates. Really, if ''someone'' could convert one every other day, it'd be done before we realized it. Letting people convert them would also allow them to get used to the #switch statement code, and possibly develop future ideas for using the parser functions in future template. We don't have to make a ''huge'' project out of conversion, but I'd like to see future drop templates created in this fashion. Of course, if anyone gets lost, we've lots of people on here who can help figure it out, and we have a working example at [[Template: Dark Falz]] that anyone can look at. :)<br/>--[[User:Kietrinia\|Kit]] 09:36, 25 February 2008 (CST)
		+	** Just for kicks, I messed around with the parser for [[Template:Karl F. Howzer]]. It really is pretty easy, and the conversion was relatively quick. I guess when I first saw this, it just looked like a lot since I wasn't familiar at all with the function. Now that I've taken a little time to learn the basics of it, I can see myself putting this to use quite a bit in the future. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 10:54, 25 February 2008 (CST)
		+	* With the end of this poll, the majority are in favor of the new drop template style. Commence conversion! - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 08:59, 29 February 2008 (CST)
		+
		+	===VOTE: Unit article template===
		+	Please cast your vote on which of the following designs you prefer for individual unit articles. Voting will be open until 12:00a.m. CST Tuesday, September 18. Also, if you have a design of your own, please feel free to submit it for voting. When casting your vote, remember to highlight your choice in bold print and follow it up with your signature.
		+
		+	:[[Orpad / Guard\|Proposal #1]]
		+	:[[Cara / Mind\|Proposal #2]]
		+
		+	* '''Proposal #2''' - Basically, it's the same thing as the first proposal, however open space has been condensed in the stats table (at the suggestion of Beatrix) and the redundant ''unit'' descriptor in the pricing table has been removed. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 00:39, 11 September 2007 (BST)
		+	* '''Proposal #2''' - Definitely. I was more than half asleep when I made the Orpad/Guard one. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 00:42, 11 September 2007 (BST)
		+	* '''Proposal #2''' - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 01:05, 11 September 2007 (BST)
		+	* '''Proposal #2:''' - This is a bit of a joke. - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 02:50, 11 September 2007 (BST)
		+	** Heh, well I just wanted to make it official. Also, it leaves the floor open for suggestions. Of course, whether or not we see anything else is a different story. To be honest, though, maybe a vote isn't necessary on all aspects of standardization. Perhaps just the ones where multiple, independently unique ideas are presented should be voted on? [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 03:10, 11 September 2007 (BST)
		+	** Neither of these are complete templates if they don't offer all of the possible fields. Unless you are just talking about how it should look and not creating an actual template (potentially for each type of unit), these won't work because they don't have fields for each of the possible boosts (END/ATA/ATP/EVA/DFP/TECH/MENT). --[[User:JustTrio\|JustTrio]] 15:15, 14 September 2007 (BST)
		+	** I doubt these are actual templates in the sense of there being a Template:Unit or whatever. It's just how it should look, and manually editing it for the appropriate stat boosts is easy, and better than having every stat for every unit when clearly individual units don't boost even half of them. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 15:22, 14 September 2007 (BST)
		+	*** Exactly. Each type of unit will have the appropriate fields in its article. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 15:37, 14 September 2007 (BST)
		+	* '''Proposal #2''' - Any reason we aren't creating templates any more? --[[User:JustTrio\|JustTrio]] 11:18, 16 September 2007 (BST)
		+	** There's no reason we can't, as can be seen by the recently created enemy profile template. It would be a great time-saver. Personally, I just need to learn how to make the larger templates. XD [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 16:21, 16 September 2007 (BST)
		+	* With the close of the poll, proposal #2 is the new standard. - [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 12:14, 18 September 2007 (BST)

← Older revision	Revision as of 02:55, 5 May 2009
(No difference)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:22, 18 August 2007
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	To help save space, older discussions and polls from the [http://psupedia.info/The_PSUPedia_talk:Manual_of_style manual of style talk page] will be archived here.		To help save space, older discussions and polls from the [http://psupedia.info/The_PSUPedia_talk:Manual_of_style manual of style talk page] will be archived here.
		+
		+	==Page-stretching and so forth==
		+	*Well, I was able to fix the stretching of the page with the addition of the ''code'' and ''nowiki'' tags, but the result is now a bit more jumbled, as line breaks are no longer obvious. We'll have to mess around with it some more to see if we can make a work-around. Of course, we could always take it out of table format and just have the section divided vertically. (The first part is "what you type" and the second part is "what you get.") [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 19:02, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	**The code part of the table probably doesn't have to be "as-is." It may be possible to modify the appearance of the code on the page, while the actual text (when copypasted into a edit box) will produce the same result as what's seen. [[User:F Gattaca\|F Gattaca]] 19:21, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	***I've played around with it some more, but I can't seem to come up with a way to make the code retain its line breaks so that the table will show up properly when inserted into a new page. (I'm still kind of green when it comes to wiki-coding, so I probably missed something.) So, until we can figure out a way to resolve this using the side-by-side comparison, I'm going to change things over a bit to where the code and result display vertically. We don't want people trying to use the jumbled code to think it doesn't work right because of the lack of line breaks, right? ;) [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 15:47, 1 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	==Capitalization and so forth==
		+	*I've been looking at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] for inspiration on getting this section going, and I realized that they prefer the capitalization of titles to follow the rule of the first letter being in caps with all subsequent words (sans proper nouns, of course) being in lowercase. I know we don't have to follow this since PSUPedia is not a part of Wikipedia, but should we follow it? Personally, I actually like how it looks. What are you guys' thoughts on this? [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 18:43, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	**This kind of thing seems highly dependent on the organization's preference. I tried looking up manuals of style that deal with subheadings (as these would be). [http://www.pvc.maricopa.edu/lsc/faq/eng/engapaman.htm#head This college's First-Year English FAQ] demonstrates the APA's way of treating headings and subheadings, which in some ways could be applied to a wiki.<br><br>Meanwhile, the AJA's manual of style says to [http://www.journalofromanarch.com/edit.html capitalize only the first word and important words] but not to put a period or other punctuation at the end of the subheading.<br><br>The MLA says that [http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:j003Ubbx-gQJ:www.docstyles.com/archive/mlastudy.pdf+capitalizing+subheadings&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us each word in a title is capitalized], except for articles (''a, an, the''), prepositions (''against, between,in, of, to''), conjunctions (''and, but, for, nor, or, so, yet''), and the infinitive ''to''.<br><br>I guess it's mostly up to what we want to see, but I'm predisposed towards using capitalization of words in high-level headings ("==" type), but not in lower-level headings. [[User:F Gattaca\|F Gattaca]] 19:22, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	* I think we should follow it, but let's wait and see what others say first. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 19:26, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	* I think we should follow the MLA-type standard, since it just makes the most sense, and is how everything (books, movies, articles, magazines, etc.) is titled. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 20:15, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	==A few things==
		+	* Not sure exactly if these are supposed to be in this Manual of Style, but a few things for consideration:
		+	** Any names (of NPCs, items, missions, places, etc.) that have been translated from Japanese due to the lack of an official localization are to be put in parantheses until the official localization is known, at which point the localization takes precedence. An example is [[Fight For Food]], which until the US closed beta shortly before release was known by its Japanese name of (Farm Plant Recovery).
		+	** Item types should be referred to by their proper names if possible, i.e. Line Shields instead of Armor.
		+	** To head off any future problems, weapon type names should be made consistent - particularly Cards/Throwing Blades/whatever the flavour of the month name is. I propose we use Cards, as that is how the Perfect Bible and PSU-Wiki refer to them.
		+	** When writing the star rarity of an item, use the ★ symbol consistently. Don't use * or anything like that. It can be reproduced by copy/pasting or switching to Japanese input and typing 'hoshi' (then pressing Space to change it).
		+	** For consistency, since the game is in US English, we use US English here as well. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences here] for the major differences.
		+
		+	If I think of anything else I'll list it here. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 19:26, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	*Excellent! I'll get started on working these things in. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 20:40, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	* er, not trying to make much of a point here, but just for the record, in Europe the game was released with dialogue in British English plus three other European languages. I agree to preserve US English preferences for the wiki articles though, if only to adhere to the dominant standard. - [[User:Tycho\|Tycho]] 17:26, 6 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	==Abbreviations==
		+	*Dun dun dun! Now we get to the abbreviations and what we'll consistently use when it comes to type names. I, for one, side with [http://www.amesani.org/soukosa/psu/classabbr.txt Sounomi's proposal], which creates a case-insensitive, easy-to-recognize abbreviation for types that would share letters under the abbreviations that originated from the Japanese wiki. For example, Fighgunner and Fortegunner would be FI and FG, respectively. I haven't added in the type abbreviations to the list just yet, as we first should come to a consensus on what we'll use. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 19:45, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	* Ah, this spectre. I personally support and use the PSU-Wiki abbreviations and have no real problem differentiating between fG and FG, but whichever is clearer to the majority would be the one to go with. My vote goes to the PSU-Wiki abbreviations, though. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 19:53, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	* I will definitely and adamantly support the traditional (i.e. FG/fG) style abbreviations, simply because they have been used by the vast majority for almost a year now. I have no difficulty distinguishing between FG and fG, especially given context. Furthermore, I do not see the need to be meticulous when it comes to Att. versus ATP and the like. To be absolutely honest, I think that it is stupid that there is even a difference in game, and I never see people use Att., Def., Eva., and the like. I do not see why we can't just use ATP/ATA/DFP/EVP/MST/etc. for everything, simply because it eliminates confusion and those are the abbreviations most commonly used. However, I reckon my opinion will be in the minority on that issue. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 20:06, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	**That's an excellent point, Qwerty. I think I'll actually merge a few things together, making Acc. and ATA under the same listing with a general description as opposed to the "in reference to weapon stats" descriptor. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 20:25, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	**I strongly side with Sounomi's style. It's much better to have two unique letter combinations for a type class, not to mention "FI" is a nod to the "first two letters" abbreviation rule of the old PSO days. it's also not case dependent; that helps avoid confusion with mis-capped abbreviations or people who just throw the shift key out the window (I've encountered situations like this before!). I personally use it for my user page as well as my signature on PSO-World.<br><br>As far as the "Att." and "Acc." issue, it ''might'' be a good idea if the weapon tables link to [[Stats]] and the corresponding stat, so that people who aren't PSOldschool will understand it's the same thing. [[User:F Gattaca\|F Gattaca]] 21:26, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	*** Well, FI might be slightly less confusing to some, but FG/fG has been used as the standard for a year, and I must favor precedent. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 21:47, 31 July 2007 (BST)
		+	****Good idea on linking the stat abbreviation to its article, Gattaca. I'll see if I can do some cleaning up of the stats page and we can get everything linked over as we go with page redesigns. As far as the type abbreviations go, we're tied with two for the JP wiki style and two for Sounomi's style. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 15:38, 1 August 2007 (BST)
		+	**I just found [http://pgr.sakura.ne.jp/cgi-bin/board/board.cgi?board=99&cmd=topic&wparam=393 something interesting] on the abbreviation thing at the JP wiki. Apparently there was much debating over what the abbreviations they use should be, and the issue of confusion between fG and FG was brought up many times. Some suggestions users over there made to get around this include ''Fr'' to stand for "forte." So, FrF would be Fortefighter. Also, someone suggested ''FFi'', ''FGu'' and ''FTe'' for Fortefighter, Fortegunner and Fortetecher, respectively. Many more suggestions were made, but that's way too many to list. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 03:57, 4 August 2007 (BST)
		+	*** In my not-so-humble opinion, those all are even more unnecessarily confusing than either the traditional system or Sounomi's. Just my two cents. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 05:39, 4 August 2007 (BST)
		+	****Oh, I agree. I just wanted to point out some other suggestions that were thrown about on the issue. ;) [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 14:46, 4 August 2007 (BST)
		+	*****I mentioned that even they couldn't agree months ago. - [[User:Miraglyth\|Miraglyth]] 19:10, 10 August 2007 (BST)
		+	******At least we'll finally have a standard set come the end of tomorrow. Moving in the right direction and all, right? ;) [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 19:12, 10 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	== Template Nonsense ==
		+	* I just made a metric ass-load of templates for use on weapon pages. This should make them much easier to put together, requiring less memorization of the confusing color-codes (or alt-tabbing to another, completed, article's edit page, which is just as silly), less typing for the image tags, and general happiness through technology. Check [[Rifles]], it works out the same, and saved a bunch of text. Not going to add it to the style manual until I garner praise and cookies from you all though. --[[User:Beatrixkiddo\|Beatrixkiddo]] 04:48, 1 August 2007 (BST)
		+	** Lolk after some fun times, I've found out that A) Templates only work if they are one-per-cell. B) Multiple Templates in the headers of tables don't get along and C) Template descriptions don't work so well with the color-code templates. Other than that, have fun with them! --[[User:Beatrixkiddo\|Beatrixkiddo]] 05:31, 1 August 2007 (BST)
		+	***Excellent work! I don't see why these won't be approved, but I'll wait for more feedback before adding them in. (Or, I could add them in with the pending title until it's made official.) [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 01:57, 2 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	== Am I just blind, or what?==
		+	<i>If one of these weapons is not yet released in the Japanese version of PSU, use the code <nowiki>style="background:#fff2f2"</nowiki> in the row divider above it (\|-).</i>
		+	* I cannot tell the difference between this color and pure white, at all. It's not really important, I guess, but maybe we should try a slightly darker tone? --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 06:06, 1 August 2007 (BST)
		+	**It should appear as a faint red. This should actually be changed to the red used in the new color-coding table I added. (<code><nowiki>style="background:#FFAAAA"</nowiki></code>) Of course, I need to verify first that this is the standard. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 01:54, 2 August 2007 (BST)
		+	***Querty, I noticed in your weapons page proposal that you chose very dark grey colors for your tables, where the "wikitable" format already has a significant division of color; maybe your monitor's brightness is set too high? [[User:F Gattaca\|F Gattaca]] 22:00, 2 August 2007 (BST)
		+	**** Lolya. My brightness is set at 100, and contrast at 28, but my monitor color always seems off if I change it. But I yeah, I suspect that is what's going on. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 23:02, 2 August 2007 (BST)
		+	**** Oh, wow. I mean, wow. I played around with some settings on my monitor and driver. Honest to God, I never knew the wikitable class had background colors pre-assigned, they always showed up as pure white on my screen. With that in mind, I think I need to change my Weapon Template, as those colors really are too dark. --[[User:Qwerty\|Qwerty]] 00:37, 3 August 2007 (BST)
		+
		+	==Voting on pending issues of style==
		+	*OK, we're getting an excellent start on this by getting a standard established for the PSUPedia. Now all we need to do is vote on a few subjects at hand (the pending issues in the manual) to move even further. So, how should we handle voting? Maybe leave it open for a set period of time (one week?) and then go with the decision from there? Or maybe we should just close the polls once we get votes from everyone participating in the creation of the manual? Other ideas? [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 04:49, 3 August 2007 (BST)
		+	** I'd say, set a deadline of one week to vote, and mention it on the frontpage so any visitors can come and vote. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 10:42, 3 August 2007 (BST)
		+	***OK. When I put it on the front page, would a little blurb in bold below the welcome line but before the actual paragraph be good? (Like where the mention of our Super Holy Light week and the addition of Her Secret Mission was located.) I can just link to this page from there. [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 03:30, 4 August 2007 (BST)
		+	*** Yeah, that sounds good, people will have to know what they're voting on and it might help grab their attention. - [[User:Mewn\|Mewn]] 10:27, 4 August 2007 (BST)
		+	*** I think there have been wiki extensions emulating polls floating around, if you want. In fact, I think I there was one installed earlier actually... Probably got killed during all the transfers and server moves and whatnot. - [[User:Tycho\|Tycho]] 17:53, 6 August 2007 (BST)
		+	*** Er, [http://psupedia.info/Special:Version actually]... >_>
		+	****Ah, cool. I'll look into the proper markup for writing a poll (since it's not detailed there, unless I just missed it) and see if we can use it for the next one we need. Thanks for the tip! [[User:EspioKaos\|EspioKaos]] 19:09, 7 August 2007 (BST)

	==Closed polls==		==Closed polls==